joker001
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« on: August 26, 2006, 09:11:20 pm » |
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I went for a little trip into east twin swallet for the first time today. What a complete and utter mess the places is, Looks like a building site. i noticed a sign saying SBCC dig.
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Cookie
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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2006, 10:10:35 pm » |
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My reaction was the same. Although it is an active dig, I think a bit of effort should be put into keeping it tidier. I mentioned it at the last CSCC meeting, but it is not in the minutes, so its probably worth mentioning again. SBSS 
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If you don't like the way this forum is moderated then go elsewhere - Bubba Oct 2008
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joker001
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« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2006, 10:27:11 pm » |
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Im all up for people digging, have even done little bit myself. But the state that place is in Im sorry but there is no need for it. it just needs a good tidy up. Other than that is a nice little cave.
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whitelackington
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2006, 06:33:49 am » |
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I am afraid you are wrong. Do you think the S.B.S.S. have done all that work, to mess the place up. Why don't you contact them if you are so concerned. This dig has fantastic potential but everytime there is a major storm, I am told about every two years the whole of the massive dig face if filled in again by the stream. They are not alowed to divert the stream as it then rips the road up, that is how powerful the stream in major flood can be. I am sure once the breakthrough is made and they have then figured out what to do, lots of the digging stuff can be removed. I have not dug there, so i am not defending my own actions.
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cap 'n chris
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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2006, 08:12:39 am » |
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This dig has fantastic potential
... Surely as the strike-aligned valley is just downstream from the entrance, the most they could hope for would be a narrow fissure connection to Pierre's streamway?....
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"Nearly everything in modest amounts".
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Andy Sparrow
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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2006, 08:34:44 am » |
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This dig has fantastic potential
Speaking as something of a veteran of Burrington digging I'm not sure this is true. We know where the stream goes - it has been traced to the upstream sump of Pierres Pot - so this is no back door into the 'Burrington Master Cave'. Another problem here is that, as indicated by the sumps in Pierres, there is a local perched phreatic zone at about 100m OD and the East Twin dig is very near this level. There is genuinely fantastic potential between the East Twin and West Twin valleys; Goatchurch is a remarkable cave system which draughts strongly and an extension leading Eastwards is extremely likely IMHO, but this will probably be at a higher level than that of current digging operations in East Twin.
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Andy Sparrow
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« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2006, 08:37:05 am » |
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This dig has fantastic potential
... Surely as the strike-aligned valley is just downstream from the entrance, the most they could hope for would be a narrow fissure connection to Pierre's streamway?.... We were in synch on than one then, Cap'n!
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cap 'n chris
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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2006, 08:41:16 am » |
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Looks like it, Andy.
While it may be a worthwhile exercise to reopen Spar Pot, I wonder whether SBSS's dig at ETS is more a case of "digging where you can, rather than digging where you might find something". Mind you, I haven't been down there for ages so perhaps I'll go and have a nose around in the mud and sharp rocks.
Good luck to them: despite my cynicism they may find something truly wonderful.
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"Nearly everything in modest amounts".
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Andy Sparrow
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« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2006, 09:55:58 am » |
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Good luck to them: despite my cynicism they may find something truly wonderful.
Ditto. I would be delighted to be proved totally wrong.
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whitelackington
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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2006, 10:01:46 am » |
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The S.B.S.S. recently loaned The Axbridge Super Drill to help install their flood debris traps 
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Hughie
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« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2006, 10:04:08 am » |
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Anyone know the vertical difference between the bottom of Goatchurch and the top of Flange Swallet? I could look it up/work it out but my crumpet is getting cold!
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I am a good Boy!!
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joker001
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« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2006, 10:41:38 am » |
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I am afraid you are wrong. Do you think the S.B.S.S. have done all that work, to mess the place up. Why don't you contact them if you are so concerned.
Why is it as soon as anybody mentions something with a little concern people get straight on there high horse. (here and on c**tplaces) Sorry Whitelackington if Ive got your reply all wrong, but thats the way is looks to me. I am not complaining about the dig I think the dig is fantastic and good luck to them. My concern was the way that all the material is/was left, ie scaffold bar, buckets and bags , tubes are just left all over the floor. A bit off topic, but does anyone know the digging potential of pierres pot. I went in there yesterday and couldnt help but noticed all the mud that has built up on the floors in some of the passages.
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graham
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« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2006, 02:01:22 pm » |
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To extend on what Andy and Chris have said, all this shite fluvial debris that is washed in by the streams has to go somewhere and the observant amongst you will have noticed that it doesn't all come out at Rickford.
Such deposits are an important factor in how the underground water courses develop. Amongst other things it can block passages and prevent them from developing further. It is highly probable that the active zone beneath the Combe is not going to be the long hoped for "master streamway" but rather a series of interconnected fissures full, alternatly with water or gravel
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Caving is for Life not just for Christmas
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graham
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« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2006, 02:02:10 pm » |
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Anyone know the vertical difference between the bottom of Goatchurch and the top of Flange Swallet? I could look it up/work it out but my crumpet is getting cold!
Tell her to wait, if you're busy.
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Caving is for Life not just for Christmas
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whitelackington
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« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2006, 02:52:32 pm » |
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Isn't digging exciting? Every theory under the sun can be discused. Only by digging can the answers be glimpsed. 
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Peter Burgess
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« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2006, 05:54:50 pm » |
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I was there a few weeks ago with some novices, and thought exactly the same. I had promised them a nice little cave, not visited much, but was shocked at what a total tip the place has become. The whole entrance chamber has been sacrificed as a dump for dig spoil and scaffolding bits. Horrible. I should add that this was my reaction when I saw it. First impressions and all that. If the dig doesn't reveal the hoped-for wonders, will the cave be restored to its former state? Is it possible even?
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« Last Edit: August 27, 2006, 06:03:09 pm by Peter Burgess »
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Hey, who turned out the lights?
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Hughie
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« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2006, 07:43:14 pm » |
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I've not been to East Twin for a while, but I recall going to Eastwater whilst the Morton Pot to West End Series was being actively dug, and being quite shocked to see the lower part of the Upper Traverse used as a spoil tip. On reflection, though, that part of the traverse is (was) pretty inaccessible and was quite capable of "stealing" any dropped kit. Also, as a digger myself, I quite understand the utilisation of these areas for spoil storage.
Where I now dig, we make every effort to keep the whole area tidy, as uncluttered as possible, and safe. Even to the extent we control the weed population on the spoil heap. Rubbish is put in a bin, tools are left tidy below ground, locked away above ground. We consider ourselves fortunate to have such a good and helpful landowner and feel that keeping it all neat and tidy is the least we can do.
It doesn't take much effort - just a little group discipline, care & attention.
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I am a good Boy!!
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cap 'n chris
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« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2006, 07:50:31 pm » |
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... and a warm crumpet from time to time? 
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"Nearly everything in modest amounts".
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whitelackington
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« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2006, 03:09:14 pm » |
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Never mind cave diggers leaving shit what about farmers?
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Hughie
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« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2006, 04:26:23 pm » |
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Never mind cave diggers leaving shit what about farmers?
If you were a farmer we could call you Shitelackington! 
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I am a good Boy!!
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Hughie
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« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2006, 04:29:15 pm » |
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... and a warm crumpet from time to time?  Absolutely - nothing like warm crumpet at the dig!
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I am a good Boy!!
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cap 'n chris
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« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2006, 04:30:55 pm » |
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Exactly! That's just what I have.... nothing like warm crumpet. 
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"Nearly everything in modest amounts".
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Elaine
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« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2006, 06:52:09 pm » |
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Poor Chris
And lucky Hughie!
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Wot, no frogs?
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Meerkats
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« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2006, 07:19:50 am » |
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Morning all, How marvelous to see East Twin Swallet hitting the head lines. I too hope Andy is wrong, I've been going down there for the past 15 years  hope still springs eternal!. As for digging for digging sake, maybe you're right. SBSS can only apologise for the state of the cave at the moment and we'll look to tidying it up so there is a clear way through the cave. We do however enter the following defense 1) There has been a collapse (slump) below the entrance to Spar Pot, we've just taken delivery of a load of materials to shore the place up. Unfortunately it is difficult to hide. 2) The cave (and we are going back 25yrs) was originally dug in the dry and allowed a lots of spoil to be loosely stockpiled. Following works in Burrington Coombe the stream was redirected down the cave. This did two things, destabilized a whole lot of soil and wash alot of the cover away from buried plastic bags etc etc, agreed making it somewhat unsightly 3) There are babies all over the place in the club at the moment and with a hot summer, digging has not been the total focus. September is upon us and the digging season begins. We hope to stabilize below Spar pot by Xmas and get on with repairs to the monorail. We are still mad enough to believe that the dig will go somewhere. If you've been there and have any advise, more the merrier. The dig and the rift down to Spar pot are a very annoying angle and this provides some technical problems when trying to instal supports. Contact us on sbss@blueyonder.co.uk progress on the dig and the history is on www.sbss.infoIn the meantime if you do go down we do not recommend going below spar pot and take care when going past the connection. We are due to report to UBSS with a update on the dig and will do so Regards Chris Whale (SBSS Chairman)
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Peter Burgess
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« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2006, 08:41:47 am » |
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Following works in Burrington Coombe the stream was redirected down the cave. I guessed this was the reason why the cave is such a mess. Is it not possible to trap much of the washed-in material before it enters the cave? I appreciate this would mean it would have to be cleared regularly from whatever trap was built, but it might make life easier in the cave. Just an idea.
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Hey, who turned out the lights?
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