Topic: Swildons - Peculiar Aroma (Read 4640 times)

Gerbil007 · « **on:** February 03, 2010, 04:26:46 pm »

Had a trot around the short round trip yesterday and noticed quite a strong, chemical type smell, most prevalent from around greasy chimney to the first of the troubles. If I had to take a guess I'd say it was paraffin or paint thinner. It really was quite strong in places.
Anyone else noticed it?

JohnMCooper · « **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2010, 07:31:26 pm »

Noticed it Saturday before last whilst doing the round trip in wet conditions. Thought it might be diesel.

Top Cat · « **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2010, 08:11:42 pm »

Yes, we noticed it too - similar area on 24th January.

Also cigarette smoke at Shatter Pot...but that was due to two guys from Imperial Caving Club...still can't believe he threw his cigarette butt down the shaft...

Gerbil007 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 04, 2010, 12:23:18 am »

Yep, reckon diesel is a strong contender. Shame there wasn't a barrel of it at the bottom of shatter pot. Could've given the plonker who lobbed his fag butt down there something to think about!

Sally-J · « **Reply #4 on:** February 08, 2010, 01:56:05 pm »

We also noticed this coming up to Shatter pot from the mud sump the other weekend. I've never noticed it in Swildons before, what is the likely cause? Leaking from somewhere? Use of a paraffin lamp?

andysnook · « **Reply #5 on:** February 08, 2010, 03:07:10 pm »

Was there Sat, I'm almost convinced its turps/white spirit - pretty sure its not diesel.

Strongest just before blue pencil (almost unbearable). Smell present all through trouble series (there was an oily deposit on some of the puddles here). We could even smell it a little when down in 4 streamway, but perhaps it was on our suits...

Roger W · « **Reply #6 on:** February 08, 2010, 03:21:42 pm »

Quote from: Sally-J on February 08, 2010, 01:56:05 pm

We also noticed this coming up to Shatter pot from the mud sump the other weekend. I've never noticed it in Swildons before, what is the likely cause? Leaking from somewhere? Use of a paraffin lamp?

Does anyone use paraffin lamps for caving these days?

I can remember the guide using a Tilley lamp with a reflector in a show cave in Derbyshire, but that was back in the 1950s...

andysnook · « **Reply #7 on:** February 08, 2010, 05:12:31 pm »

Quote from: Roger W on February 08, 2010, 03:21:42 pm

Does anyone use paraffin lamps for caving these days?

I can remember the guide using a Tilley lamp with a reflector in a show cave in Derbyshire, but that was back in the 1950s...

Used tilleys and primus stoves in daren cilau, so fairly used to the smell, dont thinks its that.

Cant think of a single good reason for anyone taking it in, could it really have come from the surface ?

Peter Burgess · « **Reply #8 on:** February 08, 2010, 06:17:13 pm »

If it has come from the surface, and it is something like diesel, then it might take a very long time to disperse. I know a site that still smells strongly of diesel 20 or more years after a spill, but admittedly it is a mine with no active streamway.

Les W · « **Reply #9 on:** February 08, 2010, 06:42:20 pm »

There was a pollution incident in Swildons some years ago. The pollutant was not obvious but was very strong on the round trip and in Swildons two.
Subsequent investigations revealed that it was Diesel that had been "dumped" on the Top Green in Priddy and made its way down to Caliper Pot, just off to the side of the Short Round Trip a bit before Glistening Gallery and then carried on to emerge at the heavy drip/inlet just down stream from Sump One. The Diesel was identified by the Environment Agency from samples we took and a bit of detection revealed the rest of the story.
The pollution travelled from the projected dumping place to the cave atmosphere very quickly and circulated throughout the cave on the main draughts, so it pretty much spread everywhere in the cave. The main deposits where into a pool just on the Short Round Trip and in the circulation draught, which aided the spread and duration of the pollution for some weeks.
The Environment Agency gave us special absorbent mats which were floated in the pool and helped to clear up the pollution.

What was astonishing was how little Diesel spread so quickly and lingered for so long.

It didn't smell of diesel at the time, it was the Environment Agency's labs that identified it.

Sally-J · « **Reply #10 on:** February 09, 2010, 11:27:06 am »

Quote from: Roger W on February 08, 2010, 03:21:42 pm

Does anyone use paraffin lamps for caving these days?

Oops I meant stove not lamp, cos I first noticed the smell near a little side chamber you could stop at, not that I've ever seen anyone brewing up tea in Swildons.

Sounds like it's all quite spread out along the passage so more likely to have seeped in from somewhere I guess? I agree it definately seemed like white spirit, I just couldn't work out why that would be down there.

whitelackington · « **Reply #11 on:** February 09, 2010, 11:40:12 am »

Could it be creoste?

Gerbil007 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2010, 12:01:48 am »

You know what Mick, it could well have been creosote, but again, unless it's seeped in as a a result of some idiot fly-tipping it on the surface, why would it be down there?

I'm planning to be in Swildons again tomorrow, but not necessarily on the round trip route. I shall report any more whiffiness.

mike barnes · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2010, 09:49:57 am »

''Oops I meant stove not lamp, cos I first noticed the smell near a little side chamber you could stop at, not that I've ever seen anyone brewing up tea in Swildons.''

Pete Bolt and I used to regularly brew tea and hot chocolate, a real life saver. But we used a hexamine stove, and it was in 12.

cap 'n chris · « **Reply #14 on:** February 14, 2010, 04:13:36 pm »

No peculiar aroma noticed near Shatter Pot but top of Blue Pencil approaching the first Trouble this morning smells distinctly of diesel AND disinfectant. Weird.

KevinR · « **Reply #15 on:** February 16, 2010, 07:44:21 pm »

Went as far as Double Troubles Monday evening with 3 farmers! smell noticed after Greasy Chimney. Farmers confirm that it doesn't smell like Diesel, they thought Heating Oil or Turps like smell. - for what it's worth
Kevin

Hatstand · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2010, 10:02:21 pm »

yeah it definately wasn't diesel. (I know that well!) General opinion on our trip was that it smelt like a paint shop, so thinners or white spirit...

cap 'n chris · « **Reply #17 on:** February 16, 2010, 10:08:22 pm »

Well, we're certainly getting there....

It's either paraffin, paint thinner, turps, white spirit, creosote or heating oil interspersed with tobacco but generally most likely probably not diesel or disinfectant.

Er,... paraspirioilcreothinurps?

whitelackington · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2010, 06:59:00 am »

Quote from: Gerbil007 on February 10, 2010, 12:01:48 am

You know what Mick, it could well have been creosote, but again, unless it's seeped in as a a result of some idiot fly-tipping it on the surface, why would it be down there?
I'm planning to be in Swildons again tomorrow, but not necessarily on the round trip route. I shall report any more whiffiness.

If some persons had creosoted a fence or shed or knocked over said drum of creosote or creosote substitute
then some of it will have seeped into the ground, possibly they may have inadvertently located a new route into Swildons?
Have you looked at the overlay to see the spot on the surface. Why not turn this event into an opportunity?

Peter Burgess · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2010, 08:49:08 am »

Jeyes Fluid?

Les W · « **Reply #20 on:** February 17, 2010, 07:24:33 pm »

The area described is pretty much under the top green and village hall area. I don't expect it is creosote. Heating oil is a possibility as is diesel. There is a farm opposite top green (over the start of Vicarage Passage) where something could have leaked, however all tanks should be bunded, and given the price of fuel/oil I would expect a financially discerning farmer to get any leaks sorted quite quickly.
It is also possible that one of the local houses has a heating oil leak but the chances of us finding it is remote.
It only takes a very small amount of volatile fluid to leak into the main airflows of the cave and pinpointing the source even within the cave can be very difficult if not impossible.

If anybody should locate the source then please let me know, there are ways of dealing with pollution if it has collected anywhere. If it is in flowing water it will clear eventually and there is very little that can be done but wait.

I suggest that if people are passing the Caliper Pot area (just after the third duck (the one after the Troubles) where the passage turns left and heads towards Glistening Gallery) could they check the pools there and also the water falling down Caliper Pot. This is the most likely location for the pollution. If it is here it will also be present in Swildons 2 (Heavy drip on the left just downstream from Sump 1).

robjones · « **Reply #21 on:** February 17, 2010, 07:41:05 pm »

Quote from: Les W on February 17, 2010, 07:24:33 pm

all tanks should be bunded

Used to work for a water authority doing what is now done by Environment Agency. Thing about bunds is that they retain rainwater - so many bunds are built with ... wait for it ... a hole to let the rain water out. Not unexpectedly, the holes are also very good at letting the bunded liquid out when a spill occurs. Best spill I attended was when the one of water authority's oil tanks leaked its contents of diesel through just such a drain hole and into a watercourse. Starnge to relate, no prosecution followed...

Elaine · « **Reply #22 on:** February 18, 2010, 12:12:20 am »

Trouble is (ha - pun!), you are 350+ ft down at the troubles and the source of the pong (if from the surface) is unlikely to be from directly overhead. could be anywhere within a round mile maybe even. The only place I know where contamination from the surface will be 200ft straight down is Templeton! (actually it is only 188ft but we have delusions of grandeur)

graham · « **Reply #23 on:** February 18, 2010, 07:47:46 am »

Quote from: Elaine on February 18, 2010, 12:12:20 am

Trouble is (ha - pun!), you are 350+ ft down at the troubles and the source of the pong (if from the surface) is unlikely to be from directly overhead. could be anywhere within a round mile maybe even. The only place I know where contamination from the surface will be 200ft straight down is Templeton! (actually it is only 188ft but we have delusions of grandeur)

Quite right, Elaine. It amazes me how many people miss this point. Consider, for example, how far the surface stream has travelled - and by how circuitous a route - by the time it reaches sump 4.

caver63 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 19, 2010, 01:15:50 pm »

...and would you expect anyone from Imperial not to smoke? After all they get free fags!

Author Topic: Swildons - Peculiar Aroma (Read 4640 times)