How many UK Cavers are there?

Pegasus

Administrator
Staff member
The UKC facebook page has been going for over a year.  When it was initially launched the number of 'likes' rose rapidly to 600 within days, thereafter the numbers increased more steadily to the 1,289 of today with between 2-10 new 'likes' a week - ish.

Some (wide) assumptions.....

Say 50% of cavers use facebook regularly - yes/no??

Of these 50%, say 50% have 'liked' the UKC facebook page - yes/no??

Of the 1,289 'Likes' 986 are UK Cavers - according to facebook (I'd guessed at 1000 before I looked up the 'insights'  :sneaky:)

So does that mean there are approx 4000 UK Cavers at most??

I do try to keep the posts of UKC facebook page 'true' to caving - no cute puppies - so hopefully have attracted 'likes' from people with an interest in caves and caving, though of course whether the people 'liking' the UKC facebook page are active/armchair or somewhere in between cavers is impossible to determine.

There must be better ways to know how many cavers/active cavers there are in the UK??

Note: The UKC facebook page exists to encourage cavers to visit and hopefully engage with the forum - please start another thread if you'd like to discuss forum v facebook thoughts, cheers, Pegasus

 

Bob Mehew

Well-known member
BCA's AGM reported 6099 individual (insured) members in 2015.  That count does effectively eliminate duplicates.
 

mudman

Member
Do we differentiate between cavers and mine explorers?
I think that number BCA members will include quite a few of the latter whereas those who frequent cave oriented forums will be more likely to be the former.
 

Smiley Alan

New member
define a caver . any one can by a  site helmet & a LED lite from a garage and mooch in to caves . is some one  only a caver if they  join Bca ?
 

Brains

Well-known member
Cap'n Chris said:
There are about 68 million cavers in the UK, if CRoW applies to caves.
Not sure I follow the logic there, unless wombs are likely to be considered subject to CRoW  :eek:
Perhaps it is just the graves they end up in?
 

Brains

Well-known member
That would be the potential UK caver population, have you considered the international numbers of those that could cave in the UK if they chose to? What of those that leave the UK before caving on CRoW land, by either emigration or death. What if someone caves AND emigrates, or is a UK resident but only caves abroad?

I contend you postulate requires some refinement!
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
andrewmcleod said:
You shouldn't have to be a BCA member to go caving.

Fully agree.

However, if would be very helpful if you were able to show that you know what you're doing before heading underground. Landowners and insurers will do well to take note and make life easier for people who have such bona fides. Hurdles and restrictions should be in place to protect numpties, is the corollary logic.
 

Ian Adams

Active member
Cap'n Chris said:
There are about 68 million cavers in the UK, if CRoW applies to caves.

Nicely taken off topic and spun into the vitriolic world of caving politics.

Cue the poison and popcorn ....

(Mods might want to cut everything from that post downwards, or split it into a different thread)

Ian
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
I'm pretty sure that some sort of study was done to try and ascertain the number of British cavers when the most recent version of the BCA insurance scheme was set up. It may be that those involved can supply useful comment.

I also wonder if Jenny P might have valuable input (as I think she's written useful things on this very question in the past).

Of course it may be that this is actually an impossible question to answer with any great accuracy . . .
 

mrodoc

Well-known member
Interesting. The quoted figure some years back was 12,000 so it seems to be becoming less popular which isn't surprising as there are many competing interests.
 

Rob

Well-known member
Pegasus said:
...Say 50% of cavers use facebook regularly - yes/no??

Of these 50%, say 50% have 'liked' the UKC facebook page - yes/no?? ...
From personal contacts, I would say far fewer than 50% of people who have a Facebook account and "explore the underground in Britain" like your UKC page. More like 10-20% i would say.
 

tony from suffolk

Well-known member
Cap'n Chris said:
However, if would be very helpful if you were able to show that you know what you're doing before heading underground.
What nonsense! I caved for over fifty years and never had a clue what I was doing.
 

Pegasus

Administrator
Staff member
mudman said:
Do we differentiate between cavers and mine explorers?

On this occasion, yes please.  I'm interested in the number of cavers for this thread - though that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the input and support the mine explorers give the forum  (y)

Nicely taken off topic
  Indeed Jackalpup - we'll keep an eye out.  There's always the option to start another thread folks, thank you.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
tony from suffolk said:
Cap'n Chris said:
However, if would be very helpful if you were able to show that you know what you're doing before heading underground.
What nonsense! I caved for over fifty years and never had a clue what I was doing.

It's usually people who do things outside the generally accepted practice who end up pushing the proverbial envelope and promote quantum leaps in the evolution of our pastime. Long may this remain the case.
 

PeteHall

Moderator
andrewmcleod said:
You shouldn't have to be a BCA member to go caving.

No and neither do you have to be, but I would speculate that most UK cavers are BCA members anyway. It is very cheap and has many advantages.

Perhaps a simpler way to guess an answer to the original question would be to make one assumption, that say 80% of UK cavers are BCA members, therefore there are 7,000 to 8,000 UK cavers.

The number of people visiting UK caves is likely to be higher as there are a great number of people who participate in a caving as part of a school/ group activity who are not what we would describe as cavers. That said, I bet a lot of them go caving more often that some BCA members  :LOL:
 

pwhole

Well-known member
I struggle with the definition of 'cavers' and 'mine explorers', as I do both, often simultaneously, see little existential difference between them, and genuinely have no preference - I think it would be a bit weird to state a preference, to be honest, at least as far as I'm concerned. In northern Derbyshire, and especially Castleton-Bradwell, you'd struggle to find many sites that aren't composed of both natural and artificial passage, and would have a fairly dull caving career if 'only natural' were the rule. To me, the interplay between the two is fascinating, and the knowledge that much of what we 'discover' is in fact 're-discovered' only makes it more entertaining. Think of all the major cave discoveries in Castleton over the last thirty or so years, and almost every one has come from accessing mines and/or old mining plans, travel accounts and Barmaster's books.

So it's a difficult thing to judge, especially when some people are not keen on clubs or 'organised' underground activity, and just do it quietly (or not) without any official notification.
 

Alex

Well-known member
There probably is about 10k active cavers at the moment. But considering the amount of people who have done some caving such as part of the scouts, school trips and other times peeps have just wandered into a cave then at a guess there could be close to a million UK cavers (defining cavers as anyone who has ever been into a wild cave, being led or otherwise).

This is being based on anecdotal evidence of a lot of people I meet has done caving at least once in their life.
 
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