Pitch Rope Lengths in the Dales

langcliffe

langcliffe

Well-known member
I came across a set of data generated by Ari Cooper Davis available on Github which lists the rope lengths required for all resin-anchored pitches in the country, which he gleaned from a number of sources. The data relevant to the Dales is now available as a bar chart, and I trust that it may be useful for those all important decisions when confronted with a 200 metre reel of rope.

 
aricooperdavis

aricooperdavis

Moderator
Thanks for making that into something more useful, and for publishing your data in the first place! (y) I should add the disclaimer that I cannot vouch for its accuracy as I did most of that googling before I had visited any of the caves. :-\
 
M

mikem

Well-known member
It would be interesting to see how the chart changes if the short pitches that can be run together are totalled...

For example - can Aygill be rigged sensibly with a single rope? Would obviously be longer than the 9 & 17m separate pitches.

The Gaping Gill / Jib Tunnel (120 / 110m) would probably be more practically split into 30,90 & 55,55.

Mike
 
langcliffe

langcliffe

Well-known member
mikem said:
It would be interesting to see how the chart changes if the short pitches that can be run together are totalled...
Mike
Click to expand...

As the bar chart shows the rope lengths recommended in various rigging guides,  it should be a reasonable approximate representation of the practical requirements.
 
MarkS

MarkS

Moderator
I think I've posted about this elsewhere, but optimum rope lengths can be a really complex problem. I think as well as the issue of different lengths of rope being possible as mikem said, a big problem is the combinations of ropes required, e.g. if you take rope lengths from rigging guides etc. then then caves such as the Big Rift route in Gingling or Quaking require an awful lot of short ropes together. Then there are obviously extra factors like being happy to use a 15-20 m rope where only 10 m is needed, for example.

Having said all that, obviously the data set in the OP is a fairly good approximation!

Years back I hacked together a program with the vague intention to work out what the optimum rope lengths would be for our club to enable 3 concurrent trips to any caves in the north of England. The result was essentially that it said we needed enormous quantities of rope to cater for ridiculously unlikely combinations of trips!
 
langcliffe

langcliffe

Well-known member
MarkS said:
Then there are obviously extra factors like being happy to use a 15-20 m rope where only 10 m is needed, for example.
Click to expand...

Interestingly, the main thing I got out of the chart was that I really ought to have some 10 metre ropes!
 
M

mikem

Well-known member
The only pitch requiring 90m is Gaping Gill (which if you don't have a long enough single rope can be done with two 55m down Jib Tunnel), the only requiring 75/80m is Boxhead (both routes run parallel & one is now given as 45+35[+30]m).

All the other 70m+ rope lengths can be divided into shorter pitches, although the CNCC topos unfortunately don't show the separate pitch lengths to allow a more accurate guess as to what they can be split into.
Rather than 90m, Meregill is given as 55+30m & Long Kin East 55+35m in the latest topos.
Of the other 80m, Brown Hill is now shown as 40+40m, Hunt, Alum, Nick & Death's Head can also be split.
All the 70m (Little Hull, Diccan, Ireby, Long Kin West, Jingling, Rowten & Big Meanie) can as well.

The only cave in the list requiring more than two x 10m lengths is Simpson's, but of course that is only if you're going back out the same way.

& the only duplicate entry I noticed was the entrance of Notts Pot (20+15m).

Mike
 
langcliffe

langcliffe

Well-known member
ah147 said:
I seem to remember using a long rope in rat hole?
Click to expand...

You could do Rat Hole with a 135m rope, if you get someone else to carry it up there and then take it through the crawl for you. Once on the first pitch, one is attached to a rope until the floor of the Main Chamber.
 
M

MJenkinson

Member
What about pull-throughs (to add something else) - a couple of 50s should do most of the popular PTs in Kingsdale (assuming you are willing to tie them together for Rowten).
 
langcliffe

langcliffe

Well-known member
langcliffe said:
As the bar chart shows the rope lengths recommended in various rigging guides,  it should be a reasonable approximate representation of the practical requirements.
Click to expand...
I have regenerated the bar chart with 5 metre intervals rather than 10 metre, as I thought that this might be more useful for requirements in the range of 10 to 40 metre rope lengths. The data has also been re-generated using only topos from the CNCC and IC sites, unless the data is only available elsewhere.

http://www.braemoor.co.uk/caving/pitchlengths.php
 
M

mikem

Well-known member
I think it would also help to have a different colour showing the maximum number of each length required for any single cave...

Mike
 
langcliffe

langcliffe

Well-known member
mikem said:
I think it would also help to have a different colour showing the maximum number of each length required for any single cave...
Click to expand...

Would it really be useful to know that there are four pitches in Notts Pot that require 55 metre ropes, or that there are five pitches in Lost Johns' that require 10 metre ropes?
 
M

mikem

Well-known member
I think it would help clubs when deciding how many of each length makes a good mix.

Mike
 
langcliffe

langcliffe

Well-known member
mikem said:
I think it would help clubs when deciding how many of each length makes a good mix.
Click to expand...

The problem is that Notts Pot and Lost Johns' have a number of different routes, and how many 55 metre ropes and 10 metre ropes one would actually require is dependent on the route chosen for a particular trip, so for that reason I don't think that it would be any more helpful to have that information.

However, I have made the data available, and you are welcome to use it in any way you think best. You can have a copy of the transaction that generates the bar chart if that would be helpful.
 
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