For the first time in many years  (I mean many) 2 of us went to the sump in Alum today . Nice day out for pensioners but I was amazed just how scrubby the top of the shaft has become to the point we today could not see the open shaft at all.

In my opinion with the walls also showing deterioration its just a matter of time in summer time when its blanked out before little johnny goes and gives CRO another call out.

So who does what or not? 

It's a natural feature, little Johnny should have appropriate supervision. Alum is not on a public path or on CRoW land but there's a charge for access...  :doubt:

Inferus said:

It's a natural feature, little Johnny should have appropriate supervision. Alum is not on a public path or on CRoW land but there's a charge for access...  :doubt:

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The wall is hardly natural?

or stile.

Time is cruel but in my memory many years ago you could clearly see the big drop from the normal churns access path.  Not the case now in Summer or seeing it having crossed that stile that I assume was put in for cavers enjoyment.

Could do with a good prune out but that would be in conflict with all those posts recent about conservation maybe.

Choices then run with total conservation (no sheep so you can see what the Dales would be like without them), status quo or consider something that may just stop a future tragedy.   

Over the Hill said:

Could do with a good prune out but that would be in conflict with all those posts recent about conservation maybe.

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Why? Not facetious question, but serious one. All woodland in this country is managed for one reason or another. Trees will stay healthier longer if pruned properly.

Walls are clearly not natural but may not be the best means of protection at a shaft top as they tend to get chucked down over time. Eldon is the classic example of this but there are others, even on a much smaller scale. Again it's down to conservation = active management over time.

Here would seem to be a good example of how local cavers could agree with the landowner (and Natural England as it's an SSSI) how to manage this for everyone's benefit.

Not sitting on that fence (or Stile). I have got the YDNP to agree that in the next week or so they would hope to check things out. 

Over the Hill said:

Not sitting on that fence (or Stile). I have got the YDNP to agree that in the next week or so they would hope to check things out. 

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Well done.  Any chance of some before and after photos? - but for goodness sake's don't fall down the darn thing as you're taking the shots 

Wasn't the first recorded caving fatality in the Dales caused when a female caver was hit by rocks thrown down from the Alum Pot wall by someone wearing cycling gear?

Pitlamp said:

Wasn't the first recorded caving fatality in the Dales caused when a female caver was hit by rocks thrown down from the Alum Pot wall by someone wearing cycling gear?

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Can't confirm the cycling gear but the rest is certainly the case. Mabel Binks she was called.

graham said:

Pitlamp said:

Wasn't the first recorded caving fatality in the Dales caused when a female caver was hit by rocks thrown down from the Alum Pot wall by someone wearing cycling gear?

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Can't confirm the cycling gear but the rest is certainly the case. Mabel Binks she was called.

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FWIW, in 1936 a Miss Mabel Binks, a 42-year-old schoolteacher, was killed by a falling rock in Alum Pot. Statements were made to the police of members of a cycling club standing at the top of the shaft and a witness reported seeing one of the men hurl down a large stone. (Race against time, Jime Erye and John Frankland, Lyon Books, 1988).

There's no wall surrounding GG (as an example) but plenty of nearby rocks, if someone wants to lob a rock down a big hole they'll usually find one nearby to satisfy their curiosity. Obviously no wall equals less chance, but the threat is always there.

As for what to do and no disrespect to OTH; surely contacting CNCC (access and/or conservation officers) would have been the best port of call. They would have then involved NE (as Alum is within a SSSI) who are very caver friendly from what I've seen.
Given the designation consent from NE would be needed to do any work - not sure if that applies to walls but surely some flora and fauna exists on/in the walls, I'm certainly no expert but it might be possible - certainly more chance of harbouring life than a largely sterile fence which seems very popular (far cheaper no doubt) these days.