Easy Cave ?

Over the Hill

New member
So back to why is caving on the decline? I think I have found another reason apart from all that personal cost of SRT gear for young and low waged people and people being banned on web sites.

After years of doing other stuff then it taking more years to get the shoulder back into caving order following surgery at last in July 2014 with the Earby into Lancaster and out via the main pitch. In December off I went again SRT type caving with young Tom H and his mate Andrew F from the DCC down Shuttleworth Pot.

So with some new gear and back in touch with another older caver we have had the odd the trip since spring 2015 and as we have come across problems like not enough rope we have just got hold of loads more because old cavers do not have time left to dither about costs and the new caving world politics etc.

After last weeks scamper underground we thought better be more reserved and changed our plan of doing Disappointment and out on the GG winch. Main reason as water levels have been up after the weekend the duck could have been a lot tighter than I was at 10.5 Stones (now 12.5 Stones or whatever that is in Euro Talk). So play safe and go and practice a bit of SRT in Yordas.

We dropped the first pitch (left it rigged) leaving the sunshine (expected rain later in the day) to find the onward crawl with quite high and fast flowing water within it. Ok thoughts were we are not coming back so looks OK a few body lengths forward so go with the flow. Through and off to the main pitch, the new CNCC rigging guide seen for the first time that day showed a long sideways traverse on bolts to take you out and away from the quite impressive amount of water thundering on down below, so far so good (so we thought).

Now is this were caving decline kicks in, passed three P hangers going right next one was well out of reach so had to lasso a sling over a rock feature and on to next P hanger. Where now? Two P hangers in view but to both of our aging sets of eyes nothing in between if you are nearer 5.7 ft tall than 6ft plus and the wrong side of ??.

So remember whoever is setting these alternatives to the good old ladder and line, caving is not a one size fits all activity and if you are going to put a bolted route line in a cave like this it needs to be able to be used by all groups of cavers of differing standards to build up confidence and expertise. There may be a hidden P bolt or circus graded move but doing something on sight is far harder than repeating what you did with your mate leading the club trip last month.

It was easier to say bollocks and come up and back out but the fast flowing high water was quite interesting to regain the first pitch.

Out and a look in from the bottom using strong lights failed to pick out the long continuation of bolts as shown in the new guide so I guess caving even in such a short introductory Pot is getting like climbing with the top end giving less and less thought to what props up that pyramid.  :coffee:
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
Nice post!

This caught my eye, though....

Over the Hill said:
So remember whoever is setting these alternatives to the good old ladder and line, caving is not a one size fits all activity and if you are going to put a bolted route line in a cave like this it needs to be able to be used by all groups of cavers of differing standards to build up confidence and expertise.

Having debated along similar lines in the past, it's worth reiterating the conclusion (not one I agreed with, btw) that the majority of cavers (or, at least, the majority of the most vocal cavers) seem to be of the mind that "if you ain't 'ard, you shouldn't 'ave bloody come", or words to that effect, namely that caves and the fixed aids therein should not pander to the least able/lowest skill set, but instead should have the bar set sufficiently high that people need to raise their game or quit while they're strugglin'.

This philosophy was extended to a newly bolted route on Mendip which could easily be an Epic Factory for cavers lacking elementary rope skills*.

[* Who shouldn't be there, so it's not relevant, obviously].
 

Filter

Member
Not that it matters now, but the high traverse line goes to a Y-hang after the second (I believe) ledge and cuts across the water to the other wall. If I hadn't known about that going in I would have probably been as confused as you were!
 

topcat

Active member
Filter said:
Not that it matters now, but the high traverse line goes to a Y-hang after the second (I believe) ledge and cuts across the water to the other wall. If I hadn't known about that going in I would have probably been as confused as you were!

It does indeed, and as I recall you descend a little way first and swing across: it's not just a step across at Y hang level.
The hardest bit is towards the end of the 'second' traverse line, and getting the last deviation [make the fist dev as short as you can, then the second is easier to reach].
 

topcat

Active member
oh, and the rigging guide inicates that  slings are required for some points: it is not all P bolts; you have to use naturals.  That might account for the 'gaps'.
 

Over the Hill

New member
topcat said:
oh, and the rigging guide indicates that  slings are required for some points: it is not all P bolts; you have to use naturals.  That might account for the 'gaps'.

Thought I had given up the acrobatic poncy leotard malarkey by going caving after doing things like Kilnsey and Malham main overhangs in my youth. Watch out I will be eating lentils next and drinking green tea instead of beer.
 

Rachel

Active member
I sympathise totally, being 5'5" and most caves being bolted by 6-footers. It really p*sses me off when people say the old 'if you aren't hard...' line - OK, I can get fitter, but I'm not ever going to get any taller. It does help to have an extra sling. Attach one end to your D ring, thread the other end through the bolt you *can* reach, then stand in the loop, using your own body weight to hoik yourself up to a height where you can reach the next one.
 

Antwan

Member
This 'Easy Route' was bolted with the intention of making a technical traverse I believe, rather than a simple by-pass of the traditional waterfall route.
 

Alex

Well-known member
Aye its a place the hone your skills. If done on life-line and ladder well that would be far harder with the amount of water going down there. I doubt it has anything to do with reduced caving numbers, there are plenty of easy caves with easy pitches including that one without the water, but water was always a problem.
 

numb7rs

New member
[quote author=Over the Hill]
... the new CNCC rigging guide seen for the first time that day showed a long sideways traverse on bolts ...
[/quote]

The CNCC guide I have shows a traverse rigged from two naturals, then two bolts, one more natural, followed by a single bolt hang.

[quote author=Over the Hill]
... passed three P hangers going right next one was well out of reach ...
[/quote]

Sounds like you missed out the naturals and were left scratching your heads instead!
 
Top