Some of you old lags will know that the NCC worked on the basis that you would never join a caving group that would have you has a member (CNCC etc). I have been a NCC member most of my adult life and was a bit pissed off that third party insurance crept into the caving World.

The devil you do or bankruptcy you don't!

Well there is a third way (no reference to those twats in Westminster) without having to be in an affiliated BCRA club. As a mountaineer as well as a caver for many years I have also been a member of the Austrian Alpine Club (AAC) for the shit hot rescue insurance. Recently I have been in correspondence with the AAC insurers and guess what. Well I will just copy what they have just sent me.

Dear Mr Over The Hill

Referring to your initial request of 11-05-2015 to insurance coverage with Austrian Alpine Club insurance for "caving", I would like to make the point clear concerning Third Party Liability insurance:

After consultation with the responsible departement of Generali insurance, caving - in your specific request - is an activity of Austrian Alpince Club ?AV and is also included in Third Party Liability coverage.

Please contact us in case of any further questions.

Kind regards,

Stefan Milo

I also think in Europe it covers Cave Rescues but double check on that if interested but I can assure you for what it costs to be a AAC member you should not wander around Europe without being a member. Plus reduced hut fees around the World, 15% of all Cotswold gear etc etc. Maybe  we should start a UK caving sub section? but there again how would that fit in with my NCC credentials. Back to the barricades 

How much?

Rhys said:

How much?

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?46.50 a year unless you're a youth, which is more than twice what I pay for my subs including insurance. On the other hand if it would save having to take out Snowcard or similar cover for trips abroad it could be very well worth thinking about.

Be good to know if it does cover European rescue for caving as well as third party and what if any limits there are on trip length etc.

What was the objection to being affiliated to BCA, out of interest?

Goes with the turf and Ethos of the NCC of old.

Lots of stories to include cavers stopping cavers going caving. Example CNCC years ago telling member clubs some fells were off limits. Not bound by that organisation we knocked on the front door of farmers and even gentry, asked for permission and generally got it, if not we had other options and that's how caves like Dale Barn were pushed.

I have it in writing I would be covered for cave rescue by the AAC but as I am not planning to go caving in Europe currently I have not drilled it down any further.

The mountain rescue bit covers most of the World but has some cash limitations outside Europe. Most of the time I use it to cover me Ski Mountaineering in Europe but if I was going to go to say Alaska I would think twice what the Yanks would screw me for if I needed help. Does not cover Greenland (Bear Gobis fucked up the once great BMC insurance in Greenland) but trekking up to 6,000 Mts is in there (I think).

The UK branch gives out a lot of training grants if you join or organise a club trip and have had my membership money back many times over. 500,000 members World wide and around 10,000 in UK.

Going back to cost, depend on Age and if you join as couples or families. I pay ?72 for my partner and myself, this covers going off piste skiing and via ferrata climbing that I do most years in Europe.

Over the Hill said:

Goes with the turf and Ethos of the NCC of old.

... asked for permission and generally got it, if not we had other options and that's how caves like Dale Barn were pushed.

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And look where that got us.

and look where this got us ?

Well for our generation into and under Kingsdale having dived newly found sumps followed up with other ways into the system and a good working relationship with Farmers in both valleys.

As for those that followed years later what they screwed up is down to them Simon. Am I missing something?

That some folks may have screwed up (I am not commenting) and failed to achieve a decent working relationship with farmers is hardly down to the BCA providing PI insurance is it. 

Back on topic. 

I would be a little cautious using the AAC insurance for expedition and caving cover abroad.  If it is unchanged from when I looked into it a few years ago the level of cover was not adequate.  I'm sure it was the British Mountain Guides who placed a warning about using it after a number of their clients had accidents where the cover was far short of the medical expenses incurred and they were left with very large bills to pay.  If it sounds too good to be true....

I would have to agree 100% with Badlad. Remember if there is a need to use your Insurance when caving abroad it will more than likely be the mates of the injured party who has to deal with it. I've been in this situation myself (mate of the injured party) and luckily the injured party (in this case a fatality) had suitable insurance. If not it would have been me who had to find over ?10K!!!

Mark 

Staying on topic I raised the issue about third party insurance for caving in UK and expanded by saying I have written conformation rescue is covered (but not idea if this is the whole wide World, or Europe .
Medical cover is a different matter in the hills. From personal experience I have a friend who was helicoptered back to the valley in France 4 years ago. Cost was zero and covered by her AAC insurance. It predates the BMC and for that reason back in the 1970's most British Alpinists joined the AAC and being "Over the Hill so did I then to climb mountains like Mt Blanc. The AAC do throw in some medial cover