Cave Flooding

Bratchley

New member
Hi guys,

Can people suggest examples of situations where a flooding cave has a significant impact on its surroundings, i.e. public safety, local river levels, local infrastructure or local business/economy?

Currently collating examples.

Cheers,
Josh
 

Badlad

Administrator
Staff member
I guess flooding at Gaping Gill has a public safety element with the increased danger of washing someone down the shaft.  At the other end the show cave can flood causing the business to close, loss of work for the guides and the clean up afterwards.

Whitescar show cave floods more frequently and there are some amazing clips of this on Youtube including ripping up the tarmac on the road outside.
 

alastairgott

Well-known member
Coming west along the road from long preston, you sometimes see the river ribble more as a flood plain rather than a river. This must impact local farmers and has to be because some of the Caves have flooded.

But I'm sure caves aside, it might flood anyway if it's a flood plain.

Helpful?!
 
Cost to public associated with police / medic attendance to rescue cavers caught by flooding cave? Not that I think this is significant or anything but just a thought?

From a slightly different angle, allowing caves to flood / be used as places to dump water can have an impact on farming / shooting / forestry land - not sure if that's a bit arse about face though. E.g. Gripping / encouraging water to enter caves drains the areas around Calfholes.
 

Brains

Well-known member
Many moons ago Magpie Sough was blocked and the flood waters burst out the hillside causing a lot of mess, leading to the sough tail being rebuilt.
More reccently Stoney Middleton has seen flooding from Carlswark(?) or related cavities, closing the road and making a big muddy patch...
Wookey Hole has also flooded and degraded the Cheddar Gorge road causing it to be closed...
I am sure the last two have been discussed in depth on here, but former was pre-internet (so maybe it didnt really happen!  :LOL: )
 

mch

Member
Brains said:
Many moons ago Magpie Sough was blocked and the flood waters burst out the hillside causing a lot of mess, leading to the sough tail being rebuilt.
More reccently Stoney Middleton has seen flooding from Carlswark(?) or related cavities, closing the road and making a big muddy patch...
Wookey Hole has also flooded and degraded the Cheddar Gorge road causing it to be closed...
I am sure the last two have been discussed in depth on here, but former was pre-internet (so maybe it didnt really happen!  :LOL: )

Just to prove that it did happen, here is a photo of the moment when the water from the blocked Magpie Sough was released (by the excavator on the left of the photo).

 

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Brains

Well-known member
langcliffe said:
Brains said:
langcliffe said:
Brains said:
Wookey Hole has also flooded and degraded the Cheddar Gorge road causing it to be closed...

That must have been one hell of a flood.

http://darknessbelow.co.uk/news-cheddar-gorge-re-opens-after-major-repairs-following-storm-angus/

But water from Wookey Hole?

On reflection I am probably confusing it with Goughs Cave, not being a local and being in possesion of decaying grey matter is my only defense...
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
Brains said:
On reflection I am probably confusing it with Goughs Cave, not being a local and being in possesion of decaying grey matter is my only defense...

Well, I have never been south of Skipton, and I am now too old to have even that ambition...

But from what I remember the flooding was caused by surface runoff. Longwood Valley Sink became blocked and couldn't take the water, so it ran past into the gorge. Ali Moody and friends cleared the blockage. So in this case, it is demonstrated that caves can actually prevent flooding.
 

Bratchley

New member
langcliffe said:
Brains said:
On reflection I am probably confusing it with Goughs Cave, not being a local and being in possesion of decaying grey matter is my only defense...

Well, I have never been south of Skipton, and I am now too old to have even that ambition...

But from what I remember the flooding was caused by surface runoff. Longwood Valley Sink became blocked and couldn't take the water, so it ran past into the gorge. Ali Moody and friends cleared the blockage. So in this case, it is demonstrated that caves can actually prevent flooding.

I believe this was the case.

I'm looking more specifically, I guess, at resurgence caves flooding causing issues to nearby areas. White Scar was a good example.
 

The Old Ruminator

Well-known member
Gough's Cave does become active from time to time. I would not call it an unusual event though as it is a relict resurgence. I was in Swildons an hour or two before the July '68 flood and nearly copped it. Gough's becoming active usually coincides with flood water coming down the gorge so it's hard to quantify effects purely regarding the cave on its own. Damage in Cheddar in 1968 was extensive as at other places in the localised rain event. An interesting study would be to quantify changes in a cave itself as these can be substantial even in a very short term.
 

Bratchley

New member
Looking to quantify the contributions of cave rivers to surface streams post-resurgence during different flood levels.

So even just rivers that can flood in the UK (that affect the local economy, public safety, infrastructure etc) that have significant input from cave systems would be a good start.
 

Pegasus

Administrator
Staff member
Thornton force in flood a while ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ6XqPkDDhY

A lot of that water is 'cave water' - don't know how it affects the waterfalls walk in Ingleton:

Surely encourages folks to go to see the falls in flood?? Don't know if walks are ever closed due to flooding??

Cheers, Pegasus
 

Andy Farrant

Active member
Gough's floods every couple of years or so, sometimes doing minor damage to the road outside. Groundwater flooding, although not specifically associated with 'caves' can sometimes cause issues in limestone areas, particularly in the Chalk. There have been instances where properties have been flooded because they were built on the course of dry, often forgotten stream beds that only flow in extreme events. Groundwater flooding of the Patcham area of Brighton in 2000?2001 cost around ?800 000. See http://www.bgs.ac.uk/research/groundwater/flooding/home.html

Karst poljes in Sloevenia regularly flood, sometimes spectacularly. Flooding of turloughs in Ireland can be an issue, particularly in the Gort-Kinvara area when the main conduit can't take all the flow and water backs up.
 

mikem

Well-known member
I think that caves generally reduce the flooding that surface run-off would cause if it didn't get diverted / slowed underground. Collapses at Manor Farm /G.B. in the 68 floods must have cost the farmers something when they filled the holes afterwards!

What you're really looking for is the impact of sinkholes...

Mike
 
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