CROW make my mind up time bca ballot papers are here

Status
Not open for further replies.

hrock

New member
yesterday i got a ballot paper though the post. now i have followed things a bit but now i have to make my mind up. its time consuming that there is so much shit mixed up in the good points on uk caving. would be good if some one did a forum filter so i could read 10% of it and get most of it covered.

well i guess on this topic they do time to dig out the descent bits on crow. a subscription pays off again  :) :coffee:
 

cavermark

New member
There was talk of the "pro and con" speakers at CHECC being videoed, which would provide a useful summary - did this happen in the end?

Could those speakers post a summary on here, if not?

 

JasonC

Well-known member
Simon Wilson said:
Can the mods please lock this thread now and save us all the time.

:clap: :clap:
Yep, if you're still undecided, you can spend a happy day (or so) trawling through the pros/cons, vituperation and ranting on here.
And still be none the wiser ;)
 

hrock

New member
like i said its annoying that people wast my time with thinkgs like just vote yes that is not an argument or reason.

yes it would great if the checc presentations were videoed.

my fear as a digger is that crow explicitly will not cover digging and if a land owner knows that what ever you open up will be public and they get no say then it adds weight to them saying no to you digging in the first place if this ended up being the case its hardly a great thing for future cavers.

 

martinm

New member
hrock said:
like i said its annoying that people wast my time with thinkgs like just vote yes that is not an argument or reason.

yes it would great if the checc presentations were videoed.

my fear as a digger is that crow explicitly will not cover digging and if a land owner knows that what ever you open up will be public and they get no say then it adds weight to them saying no to you digging in the first place if this ended up being the case its hardly a great thing for future cavers.

Digging will always require landowner permission and quite rightly so.

Sigh, with regards to any new cave, just get a section 25 (public safety) or section 26 (conservation) on it then. It's not a problem...

Then there's the problem if it's classified as a mine cos it's an artificially created shaft like the Garden Path entrance to Lathkill Head Cave. Trust me, all these things are being thought about by the BCA C&A reps.

My personal view is let's just approve all this and trust the BCA reps from all the regions to do their best for everybody. They are all doing a great job.  (y)

Regards Mel. DCA Conservation Officer.
 

Mark Wright

Active member
I'm sorry I wasted your time Henry in saying 'just vote yes'.

Your concerns over digging are fair. I too was worried about this, being an occasional digger myself. I've spoken with many of the North's prolific cave diggers about this and they are confident that using some common sense, with regard to perceived liability, when dealing with farmers and landowners about surface digs could actually result in even better relations between us all.

If some of the most prolific diggers in the country are voting 'Yes' then that should allay your fears a little. You know plenty of them, give some of them a call. Make yourself a brew and get comfortable before you call them though.

Just vote yes

Mark 
 

Simon Wilson

New member
99.9% of digging goes on underground so yes is in the interest of diggers.

A no vote is a vote to continue as present with most cavers thinking DEFRA are wrong.

Just vote yes.
 

Peter Burgess

New member
It amuses me that there are still one or two who have so little confidence in getting the outcome they want that they think it's clever to keep on with their tribal campaigning. It reminds me of all the sheep who stick "Vote xyz" posters in their windows and cars, when in reality I doubt that anyone's attitudes are affected by such things in the way you expect. If anything it puts people off. FFS just let people vote as they feel is best and leave your pub banter for the pub.
 

Pegasus

Administrator
Staff member
I'm going to vote yes - and here's why.

Recently I went for a walk from Leck, up to the top of Gragareth, round the Easegill catchment (Great Coum, Crag Hill) and back to the car crossing by Boundary Pot.  I was totally within my rights under CROW to do this walk.  I didn't need to be in a club, I didn't need to apply in advance for a permit - I could just go, spur of the moment.  I went for a walk it was lovely and I'd recommend it...

It struck me as really odd that I could not however walk over those same fells and go down one of the caves unless I was a member of a club (seems the NCC doesn't count, disgraceful considering its history) and had applied for a permit in advance - why????

Obviously I'm aware of all of the arguments both for and against however the above simply sums it up for me.

10703850_714410745300427_4368409915541834768_n.jpg


 

Chunks

New member
hrock said:
my fear as a digger is that crow explicitly will not cover digging and if a land owner knows that what ever you open up will be public and they get no say then it adds weight to them saying no to you digging in the first place if this ended up being the case its hardly a great thing for future cavers.
That would only apply to land that was CRoW to start with. If you're a Peak caver/digger then I guess there isn't as much CRoW land as say the Dales and will have less potential for problems like you suggest.

 

martinm

New member
Pegasus said:
I'm going to vote yes - and here's why.

Recently I went for a walk from Leck, up to the top of Gragareth, round the Easegill catchment (Great Coum, Crag Hill) and back to the car crossing by Boundary Pot.  I was totally within my rights under CROW to do this walk.  I didn't need to be in a club, I didn't need to apply in advance for a permit - I could just go, spur of the moment.  I went for a walk it was lovely and I'd recommend it...

It struck me as really odd that I could not however walk over those same fells and go down one of the caves unless I was a member of a club (seems the NCC doesn't count, disgraceful considering its history) and had applied for a permit in advance - why????

Obviously I'm aware of all of the arguments both for and against however the above simply sums it up for me.

That is a very good and relevant post Pegasus. There should be no difference between going for a walk and going caving. You can go down a cave until it gets dark but then it's no longer regarded as 'open-air recreation'. Ridiculous. Regards, Mel.
 

Mark

Well-known member
Chunks said:
hrock said:
my fear as a digger is that crow explicitly will not cover digging and if a land owner knows that what ever you open up will be public and they get no say then it adds weight to them saying no to you digging in the first place if this ended up being the case its hardly a great thing for future cavers.
That would only apply to land that was CRoW to start with. If you're a Peak caver/digger then I guess there isn't as much CRoW land as say the Dales and will have less potential for problems like you suggest.

I don't think the crow thing will make the slightest bit of difference in the Peaks.

All the farmers with interesting caves/digs on their land have been approached in the past, and they either allow you to cave/dig on their land, or they don't.

A poxy bit of legislation, and bits of paper & snotty access officers mithering them to death won't make the slightest bit of difference

You can leave it as is is for me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top