Interviews with Mick Melvin

andychapm

New member
Here's some interviews with Mick Melvin of the White Rose and Happy Wanderers, recorded by myself and Ben Wright.

In this interview, Mick talks about caving with Colin Vickers (who died in the Mossdale tragedy) and also caving with Mike Boon
https://youtu.be/zVOfA5YY58E

Here, Mick speaks about caving alongside Bill Frakes who died in the Mossdale tragedy in 1967.
https://youtu.be/bS9MFvA4Lfc
 

Over the Hill

New member
Interesting headline claim (still to listen as this computer sound gear is jinxed) as I know some HW of that era and having checked in the last few hours one HW certainly would dispute if Mick Melvin was accepted as a full HW member.

Some history from my own eyes:

Mostly ex WRPC members became the NCC successful team of the later 70's and through the 80's (Lugger was always NCC) that team did not include Mick Melvin and some of us caved alongside the last HW (a couple of the then HW were ex WRPC/NCC and definitely full HW) exploring Pipikin etc before the HW regulars stopped caving as a HW underground team. Some NCC (before I started caving) like Frank Raynor, and Lugger were on the verge of being HW as the NCC at one point looked like it was going to die before the HW.

Later we got wind Braida Garth (HW HQ and doss spot) was to be closed by the farmer and 2 of us went to see Mr Coates to see if the NCC could lease Braida Garth. We offered to pay off some back debts to show good faith as left by some ULSA members after the last caving HW had agreed to hand it over too them to keep it going. To quote Mr Coates verbatim (who died far too young) when we handed him around a years back rent to secure it "I can tell you lot are not students". As for the loss eventually of Braida Garth that is another story but it was not helped by Craven District Council slapping Council Tax on the NCC on was no more than a Chicken Hut.  :cry:
 

andychapm

New member
I really don't think it matters now, after all this time. Mick was very keen to pay tribute to the people who died down Mossdale and I think that's a slightly more important thing to do.

However, if you would like to put your own point of view across about the happy wanderers or the ncc, i'd be happy to record you :)
 

Over the Hill

New member
Thanks for the offer Andy.

You need to record Lugger some time as the one that has caved under the NCC banner non stop for over 50 years.  I am just a lightweight compared to him for unbroken caving years underground as my time has been split with going up as well. 

As for Mossdale I suggest you look up Frank Rayner and ask about his recollections. He has been the quiet man over the years since and was at the coal face !
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
Over the Hill said:
Interesting headline claim (still to listen as this computer sound gear is jinxed) as I know some HW of that era and having checked in the last few hours one HW certainly would dispute if Mick Melvin was accepted as a full HW member.

Some history from my own eyes:

Mostly ex WRPC members became the NCC successful team of the later 70's and through the 80's (Lugger was always NCC) that team did not include Mick Melvin and some of us caved alongside the last HW (a couple of the then HW were ex WRPC/NCC and definitely full HW) exploring Pipikin etc before the HW regulars stopped caving as a HW underground team. Some NCC (before I started caving) like Frank Raynor, and Lugger were on the verge of being HW as the NCC at one point looked like it was going to die before the HW.

I was under the impression that Mick Melvin was a pretty active member of the Happy Wanderers in the 1960s. He certainly features in their journal, and John Southworth writing about the Skirwith Cave explorations of 1966 certainly thought that he was a member:

"It was on April, 17th, 1966 that the Club with five of its divers (these being, Jack Pickup, John Southworth, Mick Melvin, John Ogden and Mick Ormerod set about another push on the sump."

Later in the same article John Ogden wrote more specifically: "Mick Melvin of the H.W.C.P.C."
 

Over the Hill

New member
My first source is HW impeccable. So is HP !

To be sure I have just had a word with another that really knows that period and could have claimed HW status but prefers not too. Picking through between the two Mick was around caving with others for a short period and the HW and then dropped off the scene for decades and I guess thats where some HW views have changed due to a generation leap. So sorry for any confusion but there are some reports being pasted around about certain matters that are not quite accurate due to the passage of time.  As said Frank Rayner may be one of the last links to correct some inaccuracies floating around and well worth recording.
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
Just to confirm Mick Melvin's membership of the HWPCC, here is a copy of a page from the club's subscription book for 1967. He wasn't alone in  being an irregular payer...

Wanderers-Subs-007.jpg
 

Over the Hill

New member
Love to see that in the flesh. No such book in the NCC ever in my time ! I Wonder what Lugger did with the money every-time he said you can join to the current younger crew?

As of my later message yesterday I said a HW generation leap and not seen in decades explains the first message as landed on me and hence I then backtracked to make some more sense of it.  :confused:
 

Badlad

Administrator
Staff member
OTH - good to bump into you the other day.  You may be wrong again as I rescued the log book from the hut before it was knocked down.  It may even have you in it.  I'll see if I can find it.
 

Badlad

Administrator
Staff member
Over the Hill said:
Love to see that in the flesh. No such book in the NCC ever in my time ! I Wonder what Lugger did with the money every-time he said you can join to the current younger crew?

NCC log books from 1984 until 2004

wl


Even some old bloke's name written in there although doesn't look like he paid!

wl


 

Over the Hill

New member
Badlad said:
Over the Hill said:
Love to see that in the flesh. No such book in the NCC ever in my time ! I Wonder what Lugger did with the money every-time he said you can join to the current younger crew?

NCC log books from 1984 until 2004

wl


Even some old bloke's name written in there although doesn't look like he paid!

wl

Likewise meeting up.
I was referring to subscriptions in a book not any hut use-age and one "old" bloke would still have a house in the area then ??? We had a Chartered Accountant keeping tabs on us (as well as the CRO) who was ex WRPC / HW then NCC (Mick Watson sadly went far too young with the Big C), Mind you someone now will turn around and say Mick was not HW or NCC won't they !
Caving life is always interesting would you agree and not everybody is a pussycat like me or with broad shoulders to match and Kelly V Eyre proved way back when that some in the Caving World do get very wound up unfortunately. Got me thinking though re comment about written down history, so where is the long overdue hard copy of the "Caver" ?
 

cobz

New member
I have listened to the Mike Melvin recordings and it might need some more ear time to take in some of the comments but there is one description that needs clarification, and that is the section relating to the Kingsdale Master Cave.
When we did the dive from Rowton to the KMC, Kenny Taylor and I climbed into the high level passage above the sump. Contrary to the description given in the ULSA Newsletter No 9, I did the first free climb up into the passage, Kenny followed a few minutes later.
This led to a passage about 4 to 5 ft high with a built up soft calcite floor which meant to progress along the passage a bent stooping walk had to be used. Unlike today where the floor has eroded away and one can walk upright. The passage continued, generally in the same manner to its end at a small pool.
The pool was very beautiful and was filled with crystal clear turquoise coloured water. The underwater floor and sides of the pool were pure white laced with calcite crystals which gave reflections like hundreds of tiny sparkling stars in a night sky. The cave wall above the pool was a pure white calcite, the whole having the resemblance of a beautiful shrine.
To the left, below and partly above the water line was a very interesting small passage which needed investigating. I looked at Kenny and he looked at me and I said "I think we should forget the passage for now and leave the pool as it is"  Kenny said " I think so too" So we both turned round and made our way back to the climb. On the way back we investigated all side passages but only for a short distance in each
DB had made plans to photograph the pool on the Mikes trip but that was overtaken by the HW Melvin team disturbing it when investigating the small, now, entrance passage. 
The only other time I have experienced anything like that, was when four of us, all HW, broke into Gour Hall in Pippikin for the first time. The descending chamber floor consisted of pure white Gour pools, filled with Turquoise coloured water. The chamber roof was full with thousands of unpolluted sparkling crystals twinkling like stars in the night sky under the spanning caving headlamp. The whole scene was stunning. Regrettably not like that now.
Mikes description of his unexplored section of the roof passage is over exaggerated. In the ULSA newsletter, it was claimed that 300 ft of passage was found as an extension to that passage. In real terms it amounted to only about 20 Metres which as we all know from visiting the valley entrance, is the distance from the drum, through the low passage to the pool.
It was also stated that they explored all the side passages, and that they all ended in a choke. We now know the latter is not the case.
DB is in agreement with all of the above comments.
 

fellsman

New member
cobz said:
I have listened to the Mike Melvin recordings and it might need some more ear time to take in some of the comments but there is one description that needs clarification, and that is the section relating to the Kingsdale Master Cave.
When we did the dive from Rowton to the KMC, Kenny Taylor and I climbed into the high level passage above the sump. Contrary to the description given in the ULSA Newsletter No 9, I did the first free climb up into the passage, Kenny followed a few minutes later.
This led to a passage about 4 to 5 ft high with a built up soft calcite floor which meant to progress along the passage a bent stooping walk had to be used. Unlike today where the floor has eroded away and one can walk upright. The passage continued, generally in the same manner to its end at a small pool.
The pool was very beautiful and was filled with crystal clear turquoise coloured water. The underwater floor and sides of the pool were pure white laced with calcite crystals which gave reflections like hundreds of tiny sparkling stars in a night sky. The cave wall above the pool was a pure white calcite, the whole having the resemblance of a beautiful shrine.
To the left, below and partly above the water line was a very interesting small passage which needed investigating. I looked at Kenny and he looked at me and I said "I think we should forget the passage for now and leave the pool as it is"  Kenny said " I think so too" So we both turned round and made our way back to the climb. On the way back we investigated all side passages but only for a short distance in each
DB had made plans to photograph the pool on the Mikes trip but that was overtaken by the HW Melvin team disturbing it when investigating the small, now, entrance passage. 
The only other time I have experienced anything like that, was when four of us, all HW, broke into Gour Hall in Pippikin for the first time. The descending chamber floor consisted of pure white Gour pools, filled with Turquoise coloured water. The chamber roof was full with thousands of unpolluted sparkling crystals twinkling like stars in the night sky under the spanning caving headlamp. The whole scene was stunning. Regrettably not like that now.
Mikes description of his unexplored section of the roof passage is over exaggerated. In the ULSA newsletter, it was claimed that 300 ft of passage was found as an extension to that passage. In real terms it amounted to only about 20 Metres which as we all know from visiting the valley entrance, is the distance from the drum, through the low passage to the pool.
It was also stated that they explored all the side passages, and that they all ended in a choke. We now know the latter is not the case.
DB is in agreement with all of the above comments.
I hope that I haven?t exaggerated my description of the extension to the passage which eventually led to the valley entrance of the west Kingsdale master cave.
I believe quite the opposite, in the recordings I say that ?shortly after the last duck we reached a low wide chamber and a boulder choke? nothing more.
The description of the extended passage that Dave takes exception to is not mine.
The extension was described as 300ft long in the excellent article written by Alan Brook in ?The Speleologist? of August/September 1966 and also published in the ULSA Review of that year.
I include two short sections of Alan?s article below for clarity and please see the attached combined scan.

Extracts from ?The discovery and exploration of Kingsdale master cave? by Alan Brook lifted from The Speleologist, August/September 1966...

?Kenny led down the Master Cave to the sump. Above the sump he noticed an inlet which showers water onto the shingle bank. A traverse was unsuccessful so he climbed a crack on the right, swung onto the rock bridge and was up. Dave Cobley followed.?

?The following day a trip to the Master Cave was arranged. Members of the H.W.C.P.C. and Mike Melvin (W.R.P.C.) descended first and in the upper passage they explored 300ft beyond the point reached by Kenny and Dave.?

If I have inadvertently caused offence to anyone with the recordings it is regrettable, it was never my intention to make inflated claims. I was purely trying to describe the enjoyment and fun of caving with John Ogden and Bill Frakes who were both dear friends.
 

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