Facebook Versus Forums

The Old Ruminator

Well-known member
In this case Facebook has won.

"Just wanted to mention to all members that I will be very likely closing the forum down in about 6 months.

I could close it earlier and get some hosting refund back but out of respect to those who supported the site, I am going to let the site run its course until the hosting expires.



I tried my very best, as many of you here have also. We highlighted some aspects of our hobby to promote it and give everyone the opportunity to share. We recorded variants with pictures and some of you were good enough to share with us items that we had never seen before, which was pretty exciting.



We started this in 2015 so feel we have given it our best shot. Sadly the Facebook culture is like sponge on the forum communities and had the people who initially shown interest had continued, we would have been in a better shape but as it so happened someone started a Facebook pot lid site and the rest is history. The Facebook Pot Lid blog is vibrant and there are many people now posting on there with their new finds. Guess from a personal perspective I found it questioning the reasons why but as Facebook offers people a variety of entertainment options, it was difficult to compete. I tried to promote the site there and on two occasions my posts were deleted without explanation.

Aside from the financial loss and time spent building this forum with you good folk, I am saddened mostly that the hobby I love and you also enjoy, has been put in a position where we have no other option available.

I will look into ways where we may be able to incorporate some of the contents into the Australian Antique bottle forum but this is purely a possible scenario and I won't make any promises.



You are welcome to PM me if you wish to discuss this further but I am not going to continue with the forum unless we get an influx of new membership and most importantly, contribution.

I am not worried about the financial loss because you have to take some risks in life and as I own the license, perhaps down the line we may be able to try again. "
 

JasonC

Well-known member
I don't know about antique bottles, Australian or otherwise, but for me, this forum wins out over any FB sites.
I suppose if you're one of those (ie 90% of the human race, apparently) who live their lives on FB, then a forum looks a bit staid and old-fashioned.
But if I visit one of the FB groups I'm interested in, I find it quite hard to find what I want, impossible to avoid lots of distracting stuff I'm not interested in, not to mention the adverts.
Whereas on here, I can quickly see what's new, home in on stuff I think is relevant, ignore what's not and it's also easy to find old discussions - so the forum wins hands down for me.  Maybe it's an age thing....
 

yrammy

Member
I use FB a lot - but I much prefer this for caving stuff. They are a couple of good caving FB groups but this have the advantage of indexing. It is easy to find things here.
M
 

Pegasus

Administrator
Staff member
The Old Ruminator said:
"Just wanted to mention to all members that I will be very likely closing the forum down in about 6 months.

Which forum OR??
 

Badlad

Administrator
Staff member
Ukcaving won't be giving up, OR.  There is a lot you can do on a forum that you can't on FB.

Ukcaving is run by cavers for cavers and we really do care.  FB is run by big business for profit, who probably don't pay any taxes and really don't give a stuff about caving.

This forum holds information, reports and discussion going back over a decade and you can search it all.  Try finding something that was on FB a few years ago. 

Remember 'Myspace' what happened to them?  Already the younger generation have turned away from FB in favour of snapchat and instagram.  If I was FB I'd be worried.

Ukcaving will be here as long as people want to use it - so please do use it.

(y) (y) (y)
 

phizz4

Member
I don't do Facebook. Many of my friends in the outdoor world don't do Facebook. Maybe it's an age thing (I'm old) but I have other 'old' friends who do do Facebook. Equally, I don't have a tattoo. I'm not trendy, I don't need things like Facebook to re-assure me that I 'belong'. Forums, on the other hand, I find very useful. Forums are moderated in ways that Facebook never is; it's a platform for distributing some of the good things about life and people and many of the bad things about life and people.
 

Laurie

Active member
Every time a forum closes a wealth of searchable database goes with it.
Comparing Facebook with Forums is like comparing a gossip mag with Britannica.
Don't let Forums die - there's room for both.
 

ZombieCake

Well-known member
Interesting article from the Washington Post:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2016/08/19/98-personal-data-points-that-facebook-uses-to-target-ads-to-you/?utm_term=.144f6b1f2c74
And an interesting quote from the article:
?Facebook?s business model is to amass as much first-party and third-party data on you as possible, and slowly dole out access to it,? Eckersley said. ?If you?re using Facebook, you?re entrusting the company with records of everything you do. I think people have reason to be concerned about that.?
I guess there's no such thing as a free lunch, so it's up to the user how much info they want to give away.  Not a facebook user myself.
I think forums are a bit more focused in terms of personal data and more targeted in terms of topics.
 

Pegasus

Administrator
Staff member
I've been meaning to post on this subject for a while - OR's post has prompted me to do so....

Facebook - The Good, The Bad and the Ugly:

The Good.

I recently shared this iconic photograph on facebook - it was seen by 13,000+ facebook users and no doubt some of those people were younger and hadn't seen it before, what's not to like about that?

wl


CAN support UKC and therefore support caving so we are happy to share their employment poster on facebook:

wl


The poster was shared widely and reached 20,000 people - the phones were busy at CAN and at least one person was employed - so someone got work - surely we can all agree that is a good outcome.

I recognised a while ago that facebook could be a 'threat' to the forum, so if you can't beat them.....I set up the UKC facebook page (thank you Mark Sims for the help).  It now has 1760 'Likes' - if you are on facebook and haven't already liked us, please do - support us, thank you.  It was a concious decision not to have it as an open group, it's sole purpose is to promote the forum and bring people back to the forum.  I put a great deal of effort into the facebook page but only to help bring folks back to the forum - facebook is an excellent way of reaching the wider caving audience and promoting the forum.

The Bad:

Try searching for an interesting post you saw on facebook a few weeks ago, forget it if it was months/years ago - took me blummin ages scrolling the UKC facebook page to find the Juniper Gulf photo.  There are 13+ years of caving knowledge and information SAVED on the forum - it is relatively easy to search and find, if you can't find it, ask and someone on here will be able to help.

When was the last time facebook supported caving with free rope or competition prizes?  Last time they supported CHECC or Cave Conservation??  Facebook is big business and owned by very rich people, I doubt not one has so much as put 10p in a CRO collection tin and I doubt anyone running facebook cares one jot about caving, cavers or caves.

The Ugly:

Yes, yes I know the forum went through a bad phase - the bickering blah blah, however that is in the past.  The forum is a far more positive place to be.  It is no longer fair to say 'Oh I don't use the forum because it's a bad place' - it isn't. 

However facebook isn't pure and innocent is it?  What it is is a giant multinational company with share holders and combined with Google, seems to be taking over more and more of our lives online.  There's plenty of bullying and bickering taking place on facebook - I have received some awful messages via the UKC facebook page - thank goodness for 'blocking'.


Summary:

I use facebook personally to mostly share photos of my horse so my family and friends abroad can see them, I enjoy staying in touch with people via facebook - it's certainly not all bad.  However, if we as a society aren't careful in the near future facebook will dominate even more than it does today - and what if it then does a 'photobucket' (out of nowhere they decided to charge $399 a year for 3rd party hosting - bastards)???

I've said before - UKC is like a pint of beer, Tim and I own the glass - the cavers who use the forum own the beer.  We work hard to ensure the glass is well looked after (thank you Moderators) - it's up to you to pour and drink the beer - so next you time you are posting on facebook please  consider the cavers' forum, cheers  :beer:



 

Jenny P

Active member
I don't use Facebook at all but do use the Forum and UKcaving regularly. 

Agree that it is immensely useful to be able to search for past topics and also to have the forum split into sections to enable me to do a quick check on things Derbyshire-related. 

It is also useful for me, as DCA Secretary, to be able to post queries or information and know that this will be seen and acted upon or sensible replies given.  We also pick up information from people who raise queries on UKcaving but don't seem to know of DCA or its activities so we are able to help them.  I can't quite see how Facebook could operate in this way - but then, as I said, I don't do Facebook.


 

Pegasus

Administrator
Staff member
Jenny P said:
I don't use Facebook at all but do use the Forum and UKcaving regularly. 

...another great point, Jenny.  Shock horror some cavers aren't on facebook  :eek:  So those who post solely on facebook, thinking they are reaching the whole of the caving community - aren't, they are ignoring many of their fellow cavers  :(
 

Laurie

Active member
I joined Facebook some years ago when one of my forums closed for major maintenance. I regretted it almost immediately. It seemed everybody who'd ever heard of me, including all their friends, relatives and acquaintances suddenly wanted to be 'my friend'. Trying to filter out stuff I actually wanted to read was impossible. I gave up there and then.
 

royfellows

Well-known member
Laurie said:
I joined Facebook some years ago when one of my forums closed for major maintenance. I regretted it almost immediately. It seemed everybody who'd ever heard of me, including all their friends, relatives and acquaintances suddenly wanted to be 'my friend'. Trying to filter out stuff I actually wanted to read was impossible. I gave up there and then.

Did you browse the pics of peoples lunches and pets?
:LOL:
 

andywebman

Active member
Thanks Pegasus for a well thought out reply. i could not agree more. I find the Forum really easy to search and have found a number of useful threads going back years, although i do not contribute much. FB also has its place. RRCPC has its own FB members only page and we find this really useful for quick communication to other members, but only of coarse if you are on FB. 25% of our members are not!
 

Pegasus

Administrator
Staff member
andywebman said:
Thanks Pegasus for a well thought out reply. i could not agree more. I find the Forum really easy to search and have found a number of useful threads going back years, although i do not contribute much. FB also has its place. RRCPC has its own FB members only page and we find this really useful for quick communication to other members, but only of coarse if you are on FB. 25% of our members are not!

Hi  Andy, I've been thinking about this subject a lot, hence the 'well thought out reply' (thank you).  I have also seen the many photographs the RRCPC have posted on facebook of their recent improvements - I will admit, it is a tad frustrating to see such great work being publicised on facebook, but not on the forum - I'm sure cavers would like to see the progress and indeed learn of the improvements.  If you would like to post some photos here that would be bloomin marvellous  ;)
 

The Old Ruminator

Well-known member
I guess I posted the original bit as a reminder of the dangers all forms of social media face. Whatever is said by them nothing lasts forever or can even be relied on. I have no issues here and maybe any collector's type social media differs from a sport based activity. I put a lot of hard work into helping establishing that collector's forum for antique pot lids. Now hours of my time will be thrown in the bin. I still do not know what to do about the 20,000 ( yes 20,000 ) images I have hosted by Photobucket. Huge threads on collector's forums and my posts here. ( 100,000 plus views for Reservoir Hole ). What do the mods do with all my cave related threads when the images go just leaving unsupported text ? Just allow it to remain as a wasteland . A constant reminder of the greed and mendacity of Photobucket. I have another year or so as I already run a Plus Account. Will they in that time see sense and amend their business model ?
The forum has improved a lot but still there are cavers who are adverse to it. I would love to give updates on our dig at Vurley but ,no, the majority of the team will not allow it. I still cant work out why. Yes. I sneak the odd photo in through the photography section. As much as I dare. Even the Mendip Diggers Facebook Forum is almost moribund now. I am pretty fed up with trying to support it. When I joined my company many years ago the advice I had then was " never work hard work smart ". Never draw attention to yourself. I will be honest and say since I retired 20 years ago most of the grief in my life has come through my input into social media. I hope to continue my support here but it aint easy . Hope to see the mods at H.E. ( I am notably anti social but will try to make the effort ).
 

droid

Active member
'The ugly'.....

The 'old' forum could get feisty, but people said what they thought. The problems came about because some contributors got very upset with anyone with the audacity to disagree with their opinions and got all drama queenish.

Fast forward, and contributors (well, most of them) tone it down for fear of a spanking by PM. So you rarely see people's REAL thoughts.

Social media never was a place for delicate flowers.
 

Mike Hopley

New member
Fast forward, and contributors (well, most of them) tone it down for fear of a spanking by PM. So you rarely see people's REAL thoughts.

There is a difference between expressing an opinion and doing so in an unpleasant or unnecessarily personal way. For example, I can say this:

"I don't agree that the forums have become less honest, but they have become less aggressive."

Or I can say this:

"What a load of self-serving rubbish. It's obvious that you enjoy winding people up. You use a veneer of intellectual honesty as a smokescreen for insulting behaviour. It's the perfect disguise, as anytime someone gets upset you quote 'ad hominem' at them and adopt a lofty air."

Which of them is what I really think? And if the latter is in some way more "honest", is it appropriate or relevant? Does it improve the quality of discussion, or does it just encourage fighting?

Too many people think that a good discussion is about being blunt and thick-skinned. That attitude excludes other people; by making a virtue of "robust debate", you lose the input of more nuanced, interesting, quieter contributors. The loudest people are often the least interesting.

It is not intellectually dishonest to filter the output of your brain before it reaches your mouth. It's just polite.



 
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