Hi all,

Me and Wayne.S went into Swildon's on Saturday afternoon. The St Paul's series had quite bad air up to the Shatter junction, but was manageable. We then went to go check the water levels for the short round trip.

As we got closer to Fault Chamber we noticed the air here smelt very strongly of oil or diesel. On a closer inspection of an inlet here, the water definitely contained some trace of pure oil, and the air was bad enough to make me and Wayne feel knackered by the time we got to the first duck (on the round trip). Me and Wayne have done this trip many times, and we both commented that we have never experienced air so bad in this area.

I'm not sure exactly where the water comes in from at this point, but it could possibly be the school or maybe a house near to Priddy Green Sink?

I would advise not to take any novices/ people unaccustomed to bad air on this trip until it is looked at more closely.

Mike K.

Meant to post something about this myself. We (three of us) were there Saturday lunchtime, also smelt the diesel in the Fault Chamber area - although we didn't hang around long enough to try and work out where it was coming from.

I also felt a bit puffy, through most of Paradise Regained, but it was manageable. Perhaps we made it worse for you guys following through.

We bailed the first duck quite a bit, but once again couldn't get the syphon started. Once through the ducks, the air felt noticeably fresher...

I'm glad you've confirmed it's not due to our fitness.

Thanks Spike.

mikekushy said:

I'm glad you've confirmed it's not due to our fitness.

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LOL 
You are fitter than most cavers!

I noticed quite bad air in Swildon's Two and around Vicarage Passage about a month ago. Even before sump 1 it was making me pant a bit. There does seem to be a problem. Maybe the very heavy rain this week will have helped a bit.

The heavy rain will have stirred up the diesel in Watergate which runs below the Fault Chamber area. It's a known problem. I believe one party that did Watergate a while ago had to visit hospital afterwards.

The bad air problem in autumn is long standing.  8 of us did a Round Trip (5 members of Wensleydale CC in the party) on 25th September 1993 and there were high CO2 levels all the way round and even in the streamway. The summer had been dry and the streamway had only started flowing properly 2 days early. The problems were particularly bad beyond the Greasy Chimney. On October 10th 1998 we aborted a trip into Shatter series at the start of the ducks because some of the party bolted after noticing high CO2 levels. .

Hi, anyone got a recent update on the situation with bad air in Swildons?  Would like to do the short round trip next weekend, without being asphyxiated by CO2.

Thanks,

L

I did the short round the weekend before last and the air was fine through the trip. No-one in our group (of six) had any problems.

Does anyone know whether the air in other Mendip caves also now less CO2 rich  - eg Manor Farm Swallet? 

I think the rain sorted it out. Certainly our dig at Vurley has been entirely free of CO2 since then.

Thanks folks; no problems with bad air this weekend. However, we were unable to complete the short round trip as we were unable to bail out the first sump/duck. Seven of us bailed for about half an hour and shifted a lot of water, but made no impression on the water level in the pool. We returned the way we came.  

I haven't been able to set the syphon running for a couple of years now - even using a neoprene hood and gloves to try and seal the feed-hopper.

I wonder if the pipe has got blocked, or perhaps it's time to put in a fatter pipe and an improved starter hopper.

Thoughts anyone?

1 By the

first sump/duck

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do you mean the Mud Sump (technically the Second Mud Sump)?  Three parties tried this the previous weekend (Saturday, Sunday and Monday) but didn't bail for long enough. I assume you did the same this Saturday. Three of us went in on Sunday (11th) and bailed for nearly 45 minutes and achieved a triangular airspace (sides 10-15cm), just enough for a nose but not face above water. It needs another similar session before it's down enough for everyone to be happy. We were only wanting to get an airflow going. It's OK to let the water go down the shaft just before the Mud Sump.

2 The syphon tube at the First Trouble seems to stop working after a few months. When that happens just pull it all up and feed it down again but the opposite way up. That's always worked for me in the past.

Re the first trouble syphon.
I've found the problem tends to be where the hose dips and retains some water after previous syphoning has stopped. This also encourages an air lock which will either prevent the syphon working or at the very least significantly slow the flow down.  Follow the line of the hose lifting it as you go to ensure that it's fully drained before you start (I guess turning the hose round has a similar effect). If 3 people present, one filling, one lifting the dip in the hose and one blocking the hose end after filling of hose started and some water started to flow out of hose. Then allow time for air bubbles to rise out of hose via bucket before unblocking hose end.

A new bucket/funnel would be good since it's not easy to seal the pipe to the bottom of the existing bucket.
Might have a bit of an idea with a container and waste pipe bulkhead/tank fitting, non-return valve. :-\
Or perhaps a smaller version of the Ireby pump syphon, similar to the one at Portal Pool, C/House.

How long is the current red fire hose?
Does anyone have access to a similar/longer length of perhaps 1" - 1 1/2" plastic suction hose?

Maj.

When we were there on Saturday the plumbing all seemed to be working well with a good flow of water achieved from the sump to the holding pool and then from the holding pool to wherever it goes. The upper narrow hose needed a bit of jiggling to get the water flowing, perhaps a silt blockage in a low bit or an air bubble somewhere, but it did clear.  Next time I'll insist that the others bail for longer. 

That sounds like the (second) Mud Sump then.

I seem to time my round trips with not needing to bail here - except a token gesture of removing half a pint from the bucket set into the floor. If you bailed for half an hour and it took John et al another 45 minutes the following day it must have been quite full. Not sure I'd have fancied an hour plus of bailing...

I guess the pipe that picks up the trickle that fed the 2nd mud sump was overwhelmed by the torrential rain a few weeks ago. Once this has all percolated through and the 2nd mud sump bailed dry, I'm sure it will remain so for some considerable time, apart from the odd few pints from the bucket sunken into the floor.

Maj.