Water Levels in Stoney Middleton Caves this week

Rob

Well-known member
There's some water tracing going on at the moment and we're trying to get a fuller picture of flows within the Stoney catchment, especially given the extremely low water conditions we are currently experiencing.

If anyone is (or has been) underground in the Stoney catchment either last week or next week, any reports on where flows were (or weren't) would be great. Particularly of interest is Streaks and Nickergrove, as we don't have detectors in there, so we haven't visited them...
 

MikeyP

Member
No news on current water levels, but we witnessed something that may be of interest a while back.
           
I think John Beck's theory for the source of the main inlet in Streaks was that it took water which escapes from Watergrove Sough somewhere along its length. However, we were there when Cavendish Mill was discharging a huge amount of milky water down Farnsley Lane and down to the bend where the Sough tale emerges, joining the partially culverted stream that continues down the dale. The water coming out the Sough tale was crystal clear but the Streaks streamway that day, right the way from the main inlet, was the same thick milky water that was coming down Farnsley Lane. Which suggests that most of,  if not all, the Streaks/Nickergrove water somehow makes its way into the system downstream of the Sough tale/bend in the road.
 

Tommy

Active member
Word on SUSS street is that the sumps are open between Merlin Mine and The Wonder Cave.

Not certain where this is from (Liam O is the one to ask, though I suspect it's done a full circle), we're going for a gander on Sunday.

I've only really been there in winter so it's new to me :) Does it happen most years or just the drier ones?
 

pwhole

Well-known member
If the Carlswark resurgence entrance is open, that can be quite fun, if you like watery struggling. But the central 'sough' section is worth seeing, if that's the right word. 'Experiencing' is probably better.
 

Rob

Well-known member
MikeyP said:
I think John Beck's theory for the source of the main inlet in Streaks was that it took water which escapes from Watergrove Sough somewhere along its length. However, we were there when Cavendish Mill was discharging a huge amount of milky water down Farnsley Lane and down to the bend where the Sough tale emerges, joining the partially culverted stream that continues down the dale. The water coming out the Sough tale was crystal clear but the Streaks streamway that day, right the way from the main inlet, was the same thick milky water that was coming down Farnsley Lane. Which suggests that most of,  if not all, the Streaks/Nickergrove water somehow makes its way into the system downstream of the Sough tale/bend in the road.
Mikey, thanks for this, that's a very interesting report! Do you know the date? How was the water getting down Farnsley Lane? Down the road? There may be another possibility in that rather than sinking downstream of Watergrove Sough Tail, some of it was sinking into Farnsley Lane Swallet and making it's way to Streaks from there. This might make more sense than any seeping through from the sough tail area or surface stream/culvert, as currently Watergrove Sough is flowing but the Merlins streamway (and so presumably the Streaks one also) is totally dry. This is one of the main reasons i'd like to know current water flow in Streaks.

In Streaks, you say Main Inlet, but there are three inlets i know of upstream of the entrance (a low bedding crawl, coming out of the wall just upstream of Alexanders Aven, and Lu Blue). Did you check any of these in particular?

Topimo said:
Word on SUSS street is that the sumps are open between Merlin Mine and The Wonder Cave.
There are no sumps between Merlins and Carlswark. The sumps in Merlins (which are currently dry up to Sump 5) head upstream away from Carlswark. There is a couple wet grovels through the connection, but i don't think they sump...

pwhole said:
If the Carlswark resurgence entrance is open, that can be quite fun, if you like watery struggling. But the central 'sough' section is worth seeing, if that's the right word. 'Experiencing' is probably better.
We did Merlins to the resurgence through trip last week, and you can do it without getting very wet. The climb down from Oyster Chamber is good fun! The central section to Stalactite Passage was still flooded last week.

And I did in Flower Pot out Merlins last night, which is also a nice through trip, and i wonder if it had been done before...
 

martinb

Member
Rob said:
Topimo said:
Word on SUSS street is that the sumps are open between Merlin Mine and The Wonder Cave.
There are no sumps between Merlins and Carlswark. The sumps in Merlins (which are currently dry up to Sump 5) head upstream away from Carlswark. There is a couple wet grovels through the connection, but i don't think they sump...

Not so, what about Shag's Sump? It has dried up in the past IIRC.

Rob said:
pwhole said:
If the Carlswark resurgence entrance is open, that can be quite fun, if you like watery struggling. But the central 'sough' section is worth seeing, if that's the right word. 'Experiencing' is probably better.
We did Merlins to the resurgence through trip last week, and you can do it without getting very wet. The climb down from Oyster Chamber is good fun! The central section to Stalactite Passage was still flooded last week.

And I did in Flower Pot out Merlins last night, which is also a nice through trip, and i wonder if it had been done before...

Was that via Shag's Sump or the dry connection between Eyam Shaft and Gimli's Dream?
 

Rob

Well-known member
martinb said:
Was that via Shag's Sump or the dry connection between Eyam Shaft and Gimli's Dream?
The dry connection. I'm not sure Shag's sump ever dries up?
 

MikeyP

Member
Hi Rob, yeah it was 14/02/16.  I've always thought of the low bedding crawl as being the "main" inlet into Streaks, it's certainly where the vast majority of the water usually emerges. I think this was the only one affected, Lu Blue sump certainly wasn't. We unfortunately didn't venture up Farnsley Lane, but it was definitely flowing down the road, would've been interesting to see where else it might have been disappearing to. A connection with Farnsley Lane Swallet would certainly be interesting!

It's worth noting that Donkey Dong inlet (down near the lower entrance) can still flow long after the upper inlets have stopped flowing and I'm pretty sure that there is still sometimes a stream in Streaks/Nickergrove when Merlin/Carlswark is dry  - which is why John was so keen to push downstream of Nickergrove.
 

martinb

Member
Rob said:
martinb said:
Was that via Shag's Sump or the dry connection between Eyam Shaft and Gimli's Dream?
The dry connection. I'm not sure Shag's sump ever dries up?

Ah, that's interesting, we (me and 3 others) dug a new route between the chamber just W of Eyam Shaft into Gimli's Dream, way back in 2010, which was just above and to the left of the old concreted connection. It had an unconsolidated scree/mud wall to one (Carlswark) side, which I had been informed a few months ago had collapsed and blocked the route. I haven't been back and crawled through the connection for at least 4 years!

I thought I had read somewhere that Shag's Sump definately unroofs as a sump?  :confused:
 

martinb

Member
MikeyP said:
It's worth noting that Donkey Dong inlet (down near the lower entrance) can still flow long after the upper inlets have stopped flowing and I'm pretty sure that there is still sometimes a stream in Streaks/Nickergrove when Merlin/Carlswark is dry  - which is why John was so keen to push downstream of Nickergrove.

Once Nickergrove Streamway was reopened in May 2011, we endeavoured to push downstream, however since John Beck had done his solo trip into the streamway, it looked as though the choke at the point where he ducked under had moved and blocked the duck. We spent a good hour trying to insert John Taylor into a gap a lot smaller than him!

So we gave up and went on to other projects. All it would need would be time, scaffold and a diver.

There is a report of the breakthrough in Descent 221 P22 to 24, also the reopening of a dry route between Carlswark and Merlins in same Descent P7.

 

martinb

Member
pwhole said:
If the Carlswark resurgence entrance is open, that can be quite fun, if you like watery struggling. But the central 'sough' section is worth seeing, if that's the right word. 'Experiencing' is probably better.

Once again, my mate who's buggered off to South Wales, told me that water came UP through the floor of Carlswark Resurgence, on the right just before you get to the climb into Eyam passage there is an inpenetrable slot where he said it came from.

IIRC he said it came from Boil Up?
 

2xw

Active member
Topimo said:
Not certain where this is from (Liam O is the one to ask, though I suspect it's done a full circle), we're going for a gander on Sunday.

Me and Botch did it on Tuesday. Don't make the mistake of wearing just a tshirt like I did - Sump 4 is open but gets you wet behind the ears.
 

Mark

Well-known member
I have never known Shags sump to dry up, we pumped it once in severe drought and managed about an inch of airspace and broke through into the big cross rift, and about 30ft of passage, leading to the sump which connects to upstream Big Dig (John Smiths Passage) which I have never known to be unroofed either.
 

martinb

Member
Mark said:
I have never known Shags sump to dry up, we pumped it once in severe drought and managed about an inch of airspace and broke through into the big cross rift, and about 30ft of passage, leading to the sump which connects to upstream Big Dig (John Smiths Passage) which I have never known to be unroofed either.

I stand corrected.  :bow: Is that the passage shown as dotted line on the survey then Mark?

(P.s. Not been to 3 Stags since last saw you!)
 

richardg

Active member
I've been thinking, why don't some of you local lads re excavate the  the spoil heap in front of the lower (resurgence) entrance to Carlswark Cavern and lower the? water level  allowing a proper unhindered exploration of the passages beyond?
Wouldn't this allow you to find more cave by following the watercourse further back?
As this this was likely the original main resurgence for the region....
Maybe previously unnoticed inlets and maybe even a main drain could be found and explored.......
 

martinb

Member
richardg said:
I've been thinking, why don't some of you local lads re excavate the  the spoil heap in front of the lower (resurgence) entrance to Carlswark Cavern and lower the? water level  allowing a proper unhindered exploration of the passages beyond?
Wouldn't this allow you to find more cave by following the watercourse further back?
As this this was likely the original main resurgence for the region....
Maybe previously unnoticed inlets and maybe even a main drain could be found and explored.......

As mentioned, the water rises up and drains down from within Resurgence passage. You would probably only be able to make Resurgence drain slightly quicker than it already does. I've had a good ferret around Resurgence and the passage that leads to the climb and sumped 'canal', and that previously mentioned slot would need chemically enlarging.

Am I correct in thinking that the Boil Up water goes to Moorwood Sough via Carlswark?
 

Rob

Well-known member
martinb said:
...Am I correct in thinking that the Boil Up water goes to Moorwood Sough via Carlswark?
No, quite the opposite. Water flows from the back of Carlswark to Moorwood Sough, via the boil-up...
 

martinb

Member
Rob said:
martinb said:
...Am I correct in thinking that the Boil Up water goes to Moorwood Sough via Carlswark?
No, quite the opposite. Water flows from the back of Carlswark to Moorwood Sough, via the boil-up...

So where does the water that enters Carlswark Resurgence come from?

Slightly off topic, my mate told me there was another sough/streamway under Merlins that headed towards Carlswark. He reckoned that there is a blocked passage in Merlins leading to the streamway...... :-\
 

Rob

Well-known member
martinb said:
So where does the water that enters Carlswark Resurgence come from?
I believe it's mostly overflow from John Smith's Passage, coming into the system down Big Dig. Also other bits and bobs, such as wet weather flow down Dynamite Series.

martinb said:
Slightly off topic, my mate told me there was another sough/streamway under Merlins that headed towards Carlswark. He reckoned that there is a blocked passage in Merlins leading to the streamway...... :-\
Really? Said mate got any evidence of that?
 

martinb

Member
Rob said:
martinb said:
So where does the water that enters Carlswark Resurgence come from?
I believe it's mostly overflow from John Smith's Passage, coming into the system down Big Dig. Also other bits and bobs, such as wet weather flow down Dynamite Series.

That doesn't account for the water uprising through the slot in Resurgence?

martinb said:
Slightly off topic, my mate told me there was another sough/streamway under Merlins that headed towards Carlswark. He reckoned that there is a blocked passage in Merlins leading to the streamway...... :-\
Really? Said mate got any evidence of that?
[/quote]

There was a reference of an old miner in his 90's giving an account to the Oracle of Eyam in the early 70's of a 'set of steps leading down to a streamway in Merlins', that was subsequently blocked/backfilled.

As you enter Merlins through the normal adit, you pottle along until you get to the 'T' junction, turn left and enter the rift. Somewhere there were the steps. I did a bit of exploratory work last year and found a buried dry stone wall. I then got slightly sidetracked by the cave you then photographed and haven't been back to excavate further.

I have the article somewhere.
 
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