Author Topic: Water Icicle and Knotlow Bad Air info required  (Read 848 times)

Offline moorfurlong

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Water Icicle and Knotlow Bad Air info required
« on: March 14, 2017, 08:55:12 pm »
HI

Has any one been in these recently ?

Thanks

Offline Pete K

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Re: Water Icicle and Knotlow Bad Air info required
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2017, 09:00:32 pm »
I'm not aware of any reports of bad air in Knotlow/Hillocks for some time now. Certainly nothing that has been past DCA way.

Offline moorfurlong

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Re: Water Icicle and Knotlow Bad Air info required
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2017, 09:14:30 pm »
HI Pete

Cheers Mark R north wales

Offline EwanCameron

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Re: Water Icicle and Knotlow Bad Air info required
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2017, 10:28:41 pm »
Ask the OCC lads that dig in there


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Offline pwhole

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Re: Water Icicle and Knotlow Bad Air info required
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2017, 01:33:51 am »
I was in WI a few weeks ago, and whilst a bit stuffy in places, it wasn't particularly desperate. Though I'm quite tolerant of bad airs.

Offline Benfool

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Re: Water Icicle and Knotlow Bad Air info required
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2017, 07:30:34 am »
Going down knotlow tonight, I'll let you know

B

Offline mr goose

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Re: Water Icicle and Knotlow Bad Air info required
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2017, 06:19:39 pm »
Was in Knotlow last Saturday - air was fine. Plenty of water too but guess it'll have settled down a bit now summer has arrived???

Offline Benfool

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Re: Water Icicle and Knotlow Bad Air info required
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2017, 10:22:26 pm »
Knotlow was absolutely fine as far as 4ways

B

Offline Pipster

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Re: Water Icicle and Knotlow Bad Air info required
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2017, 01:13:54 pm »
Ask the OCC lads that dig in there [WICC]

For one reason or another, we've not been active down WICC for the last couple of months, so can't comment on the air at the minute I'm afraid.

We hope to resume digging very soon btw.
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Offline al

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Re: Water Icicle and Knotlow Bad Air info required
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2017, 05:30:45 pm »
I've just returned from guiding a group from SUSS around the gated section in Water Icicle, and the air quality in the shaft, the North West Passage and the gated section was very benign by WICC's standards.

I measured the oxygen levels using a QRAE 4-gas monitor, and the readings were:-
Surface                                              20.90%
Foot of Shaft                                   20.00%
Top of ladder (North West Aven)      19.80%
Three Way Aven                              19.50%
Elevator Junction                              18.90%
End of Urchin Passage                      18.70%
Cherty 2 Choke                              19.10%
End of Cherty 2 Extensions              18.50%


If you subtract these figures from the surface reading, you get an approximate value for the CO2 percentage.

These levels wouldn't normally hinder cavers to a great extent in the short term, but prolonged exposure to any high level of CO2 could have an effect eventually - remember the "normal" reading for CO2 in fresh air is 0.08%. And it should be noted that other parts of the system (Volcanic Bugpusher extensions, Batty Farber etc) have been known to have higher concentrations of CO2 than the parts I measured today.
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Offline al

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Re: Water Icicle and Knotlow Bad Air info required
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2017, 05:37:51 pm »
Also, in case you are planning a visit to WICC, are you aware that there is now a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) in place on Derby Lane, making it illegal to drive a motorised vehicle beyond Summerhill Farm.

My SUSS group needed a written exemption so that they could drive (part way - it gets too rutted further on) along Derby Lane.

FYI, I walked! - It's almost as far as your average Yorkshire cave!
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Offline royfellows

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Re: Water Icicle and Knotlow Bad Air info required
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2017, 05:41:41 pm »
remember the "normal" reading for CO2 in fresh air is 0.08%.

Its about 402 ppm or 0.04% by volume or about 0.06% by mass, scientific fact.
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Offline al

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Re: Water Icicle and Knotlow Bad Air info required
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2017, 06:16:07 pm »
remember the "normal" reading for CO2 in fresh air is 0.08%.

Its about 402 ppm or 0.04% by volume or about 0.06% by mass, scientific fact.
Typo?

I'm sure you're correct. However, I've only ever found 0.08% in fresh air that I've measured. The point I was trying to make is that even the small amounts measured today are vastly greater than normal.
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Offline royfellows

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Re: Water Icicle and Knotlow Bad Air info required
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2017, 06:42:56 pm »
I am not trying to be smart or clever and know nothing about using these meters, but I would be inclined to check the thing. Maybe someone else on here who uses one can offer advice.

I know my friends in SCMC have them, and I think that they calibrate them against the known fresh air setting or something before going underground. I am vague on this though.

RTFM?
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Offline pwhole

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Re: Water Icicle and Knotlow Bad Air info required
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2017, 07:38:12 pm »
It used to be a lot higher a few million years ago. Most species of plants evolved for and can still easily process levels of 2%, and will grow faster and larger in such an environment, and can tolerate higher temperatures too. It's often pumped into commercial greenhouses to increase crop yields and overall density of fruits, and I would imagine staff in those facilities are exposed to quite high levels, unless they have to flush before entering due to H&S regs. I bet they don't in reality. But growing more plants soaks up CO2, so it's a worthwhile exercise.

Just for info  :halo:

Offline al

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Re: Water Icicle and Knotlow Bad Air info required
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2017, 11:04:23 pm »
I know my friends in SCMC have them, and I think that they calibrate them against the known fresh air setting or something before going underground. I am vague on this though.

Fresh air calibration only applies to monitors measuring oxygen. If you want to know the CO2 value, you must use a carbon dioxide monitor. Calibrating these chaps requires software, equipment and specimen gas.
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Offline Selkirk

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Re: Water Icicle and Knotlow Bad Air info required
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2017, 12:36:54 am »
Water Icicle was fine two week ago...