Author Topic: Eldon Hole - Trip Report  (Read 72451 times)

Offline Mrs Trellis

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #375 on: May 17, 2016, 08:39:10 pm »
Tanalised eh? 21st century digging.
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Offline AR

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #376 on: May 17, 2016, 09:14:39 pm »
Going way off topic for a moment, while in the Beer Shop in Sheffield Market today I spotted a brew from Thornbridge, an 8% oak-aged stout called Eldon.... :beer2:
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline pwhole

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #377 on: May 18, 2016, 12:54:32 am »
I climbed up some 100 year-old (at least) stemples this afternoon, and they were rock-solid. Some 300 year-old ones in Odin are equally sound. I think it depends mostly on stability of environment and placement, and if not permanently damp, will keep for yonks. I have been wondering though whether there's some sort of plastic solution that's cheap enough, strong enough and non-degrading enough to the water supply to be used instead of wood on projects like this? Some plastics will quite literally last forever.

Offline Madness

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #378 on: May 18, 2016, 08:14:14 am »
I would have thought that stemples would probably be a dense hardwood such as oak. Modern pressure treated timber is softwood and not very dense.

Pressure treated softwood will rot fairly quickly if it's wet all the time.

Offline Brains

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #379 on: May 18, 2016, 09:34:36 am »
I would have thought that stemples would probably be a dense hardwood such as oak. Modern pressure treated timber is softwood and not very dense.

Pressure treated softwood will rot fairly quickly if it's wet all the time.

The chunky ones ("stulls") were often pitch pine, as the pitch acted as a preservative. The extant cranes in Box Quarry are pitch pine, the newer, oak ones, have rotted

Offline Mrs Trellis

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #380 on: May 18, 2016, 09:38:05 am »
I would have thought that stemples would probably be a dense hardwood such as oak. Modern pressure treated timber is softwood and not very dense.

Pressure treated softwood will rot fairly quickly if it's wet all the time.
Spot on.

There was a sawmill in Castleton in ..er.. Mill Lane. Good pics in the Visitor centre. I suppose along with the rope works this supplied the local mining industry.
Mrs Trellis
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Offline tony from suffolk

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #381 on: May 18, 2016, 10:26:10 am »
A few years ago the National Trust built a long causeway over marshy ground at the southern end of Derwentwater in the Lake District using "planks" made from recycled tyres. They appear to be very strong and no doubt pretty durable.
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Offline alastairgott

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #382 on: May 18, 2016, 10:36:22 am »
I guess for the next half a century the current solution is fine. When that starts to fail, it'll be either fitted out with concrete tubes like Titan or fitted with Breezeblocks like Notts 2.

Who knows, the diggers might be climbing avens in the hillside beyond, and opening new entrances.

and in any case, modern mines still operate with the use of wood to hold stuff up, which get replaced when the time comes.
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Offline bograt

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #383 on: May 20, 2016, 10:58:53 am »
The Cave Discovery Fund was originally funded by a levy on membership fees, this is why the rules are biased towards benefits for DCA members, more recent funding has come from donations.

I wonder if BCA could look into sourcing funds under the category 'provision of facilities'?, after all, other sports organisations manage to get assistance for playing fields, etc.---
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Online Badlad

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #384 on: May 20, 2016, 11:39:26 am »
As requested.  Discussion on dig funding now split and moved to here..

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=20390.msg261653;topicseen#new

Sorry Bograt but your post seems to have slipped the net.

Offline A_Northerner

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #385 on: May 20, 2016, 11:46:57 am »
Going way off topic for a moment, while in the Beer Shop in Sheffield Market today I spotted a brew from Thornbridge, an 8% oak-aged stout called Eldon.... :beer2:

You were in Beer Central? Great beer shop! I shared a bottle of Thornbridge's "Eldon" down Eldon Hole a few weeks ago, it's a quality brew.

As for the wood - I imagine the decomposition process is drastically slowed down in caves and mines due to the lack of airborne bacteria, caves are surprisingly sterile environments particularly when they don't have a lot of grubby organic life (cavers, for example) wandering through them repeatedly.

However this sterile environment does also mean that once a particularly hardy species takes hold there is little competition for it and it is free to grow in ways you wouldn't normally see on the surface - where a myriad of other micro-organisms are vying for their own existence.

This picture of a log I found in Cumberland and Wapping illustrates this quite nicely!
In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. This time it WAS a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell...

Offline bograt

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #386 on: May 20, 2016, 12:00:10 pm »
As requested.  Discussion on dig funding now split and moved to here..

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=20390.msg261653;topicseen#new

Sorry Bograt but your post seems to have slipped the net.


No probs  :thumbsup: copied over there now  ;)
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Offline Mark R

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #387 on: May 20, 2016, 12:50:43 pm »
19/05/16

Tom Tom, Ivor D, Mark R

Only 6 poles for us all tonight, easy stuff! We had an enjoyable couple of hours capping, hammering scaffolding, swearing and cutting and managed to progress the diagonal by another foot or so. The giant boulder is vastly reduced in size, I'm trying to cap the bottom off it and leave a nice slab to sit in the roof above the scaffold poles. so far, it sort of seems to be working.

We found loads more bones in the mud, mainly tiny bird bones but I also put a crowbar through a big chunk of bone or horn then a few minutes later found a 4" long tapering piece of horn. Ivor thought it looked like it could be a deer which I think may be a good shout.

While I was at the bottom struggling with scaffolding Tom and Ivor had some periods of little activity. I actually heard some complaints along the lines of it being too cold sat in the draught! Not often you get that complaint from a dig :)

We exited some time after 10 having collected some footage for an unusual trip report...

Mark R

Offline Brains

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #388 on: May 20, 2016, 12:57:05 pm »
I seem to remember tales of the nearby Nettle Pot being dug by dangling headfirst on a rope and pulling out handfulls of red deer bones. I am guessing they would be old. If you are finding deer bones in the dig could that indicate you are through the infil of recent times and into older deposits? Would you recognise mammoth, wooly rhino, hyena or other ice age remains when they begin to turn up? It all sounds very interesting and positive!  ;D

Offline TomTom

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #389 on: May 20, 2016, 01:41:45 pm »
...We exited some time after 10 having collected some footage for an unusual trip report...

Yes, we assisted our friend Mr S Pole with recording his first ever trip into a cave, and here it is:



Offline adam

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #390 on: May 20, 2016, 01:55:53 pm »
Just some comments of a biological nature:

A_Northerner, I think they are called candlestick fungus or stag's horn fungus (Xylaria hypoxylon). They seem to be quite common on wood in caves/mines, in fact I don't think I've ever seen them above ground.

Mark_R, regarding the bones, were no more ocelot bones found? Our discovery of ocelot bones in Eldon is very exciting and certainly raises some interesting paleoecological questions.

Online Badlad

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #391 on: May 20, 2016, 01:56:56 pm »
Excellent - what a great perspective.  Although I did feel sorry for poor Mr Pole.  Never to see the light of day again..  :(

Offline bograt

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #392 on: May 20, 2016, 02:04:37 pm »
 :lol: :lol: :lol:, Love the soundtrack  :lol: :lol  :thumbsup
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Offline cavermark

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #393 on: May 20, 2016, 02:27:40 pm »
We had a bone from Crem pot identified by the University as Wild Boar - not seen many of them roaming around for a while...

Offline bograt

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #394 on: May 20, 2016, 02:36:40 pm »
We had a bone from Crem pot identified by the University as Wild Boar - not seen many of them roaming around for a while...

Had some on our farm for a while, lovely meat, but a b*stard to look after -----!!!.

Methinks some of these bones could do with identifying and dating, it may be that they date from before the earliest exploration period, which would mean virgin territory! ---.

For instance, I don't think Ocelots have been around since the start of farming in that area?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 02:45:41 pm by bograt »
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Offline Brains

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #395 on: May 20, 2016, 02:59:31 pm »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Boyd_Dawkins

Hints at some stunning finds you may need to watch for - if the died in Windy Knoll, they could well be down Eldon?

Quote
...and Windy Knoll near Castleton. At Windy Knoll (NGR SK126830), he proved the existence of exotic animals that lived in England prior to the ice ages. With Rooke Pennington and J. Tym, he discovered bones from bison, cave hyena, cave bear and a large cat, possibly a relative of the sabre tooth tiger. The bison bones were more recently dated at 37 300bp (OxA – 4579).

Suppose it also depends at what date the shaft became unroofed? Any guesses?

Offline AR

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #396 on: May 20, 2016, 03:11:07 pm »
If you do think that the bones starting to emerge may not be modern domestic animals but the ice age wild fauna found in other caves nearby, I'd suggest getting in touch with Andrew Chamberlain?
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #397 on: May 20, 2016, 03:42:44 pm »
Or you could Invite some members of the YSS down? pretty sure that one of them is an Archaeologist... (Nigel Steel) http://www.digventures.com/under-the-uplands/ddt/micro_view.php?item_key=abk_cd&abk_cd=LA_73

http://digventures.com/under-the-uplands/background/yorkshires-hidden-archaeology/
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Offline Born again caver

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #398 on: May 23, 2016, 05:17:59 pm »
I would be interested in having a look at the bones you have found, was the chamber open to the air at some point, if so could be a pitfall trap. Could you photograph the bones insitu and bag them up I can give them a clean and the 'once over'. I would like to see the place of deposition at some point if that is possible.

Offline Mark R

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Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
« Reply #399 on: May 23, 2016, 08:13:11 pm »
I'll bring them out on Thursday night.