The Scottish Question..
- Thread starter cavermark
- Start date
danthecavingman
Member
Mark,
As things stand, there is no exclusion to caves on land in Scotland. CROW does not apply, the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 went further than CROW and gives greater rights and freedoms than we enjoy under CROW
http://www.dofe.org/go/soutaccess/
Dan.
As things stand, there is no exclusion to caves on land in Scotland. CROW does not apply, the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 went further than CROW and gives greater rights and freedoms than we enjoy under CROW
http://www.dofe.org/go/soutaccess/
Dan.
Bob Mehew
Well-known member
The far sighted GSG actually spoke for CRoW applying to caves in the consultation period before the 2003 act which dealt with Scotland. The act specifically states "Access rights are exercisable above and below (as well as on) the surface of the land."cavermark said:
And for those who might wish to know, Northern Ireland has no equivalent legislation.
Simon Wilson
New member
damian said:
Damian, Bob and anyone else, how does the voting system work? Is there a system of weighting? Does the vote from the CNCC count for more than the vote from my club and more than my individual vote? If so, by exactly how much?
When we were told it was a ballot of all members I expect the vast majority of members would have assumed it was all individuals and only individuals. It was our club AGM on Saturday and nobody in our club had any idea that we had a club vote.
Simon Wilson, EPC elected CNCC representative.
Mark Wright
Active member
I too assumed the ballot/poll was for all INDIVIDUAL members, not the clubs or regional councils. This was clarified on ukCaving not so long ago. I'm sure there was no mention of club votes. My club hasn't carried out a ballot/poll of its members regarding a club vote.
Mark
Mark
Simon Wilson
New member
This is starting to look like a farce.
Peter Burgess
New member
As has already been pointed out somewhere, pantomime is more seasonally appropriate.
Peter Burgess
New member
But, jesting aside, why don't we wait for Damian to confirm what the plan is?
Simon Wilson
New member
Because everybody involved should have known how the voting system was to work before even deciding to have a poll/ballot.
Peter Burgess
New member
I expect the system was decided before the votes started to come in. I hope so, anyway!
As I have just posted on another thread, the poll is a poll of all BCA's members (apart from Associate members). This includes Group and Individual members since they are "members". Each member has one vote with something over 6,000 voting papers distributed. In effect this means group votes (about 165 in total) are largely irrelevant, but to have conducted a poll of our members without including some of our members would have been most odd!
Damian Weare
BCA Secretary
Damian Weare
BCA Secretary
Simon Wilson
New member
damian said:
Would have been most odd? Maybe it is largely irrelevant but it seems to me that it should not be a poll of all members but a poll of all individual members.
I opened this thread up anticipating that 'The West Lothian Question' beloved of Tam Dayell and other politicians had reared its head - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Lothian_question 
I see it hasn't, for which we should be grateful (but Scottish cavers may decide that they shouldn't vote on issues that apply only south of the border). I suggest that the easiest solution for clubs pondering how they are going to poll their members on how to cast their club vote is to abstain and save all the hassle.
I see it hasn't, for which we should be grateful (but Scottish cavers may decide that they shouldn't vote on issues that apply only south of the border). I suggest that the easiest solution for clubs pondering how they are going to poll their members on how to cast their club vote is to abstain and save all the hassle.
Simon Wilson
New member
McMole said:I opened this thread up anticipating that 'The West Lothian Question' beloved of Tam Dayell and other politicians had reared its head - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Lothian_question
I see it hasn't, for which we should be grateful (but Scottish cavers may decide that they shouldn't vote on issues that apply only south of the border). I suggest that the easiest solution for clubs pondering how they are going to poll their members on how to cast their club vote is to abstain and save all the hassle.
My fellow northerner, the CNCC does not recognize the border.
Bob Mehew
Well-known member
I will declare an interest, I am a member of GSG.Simon Wilson said:My fellow northerner, the CNCC does not recognize the border.
It is true that CNCC covers all caves north of some line (which is roughly Liverpool to Hull but please don't quote me) which covers Scotland. So the GSG is a full member of CNCC. (I presume it does stop somewhere and not include places like Iceland and the Fareo Islands.)
Many Scottish cavers cave in the Dales and places other than just Scotland. Indeed a sizable percentage of the GSG membership are Mendip based. So why should they not give their individual views?
Simon Wilson
New member
Bob Mehew said:I will declare an interest, I am a member of GSG.Simon Wilson said:My fellow northerner, the CNCC does not recognize the border.
It is true that CNCC covers all caves north of some line (which is roughly Liverpool to Hull but please don't quote me) which covers Scotland. So the GSG is a full member of CNCC. (I presume it does stop somewhere and not include places like Iceland and the Fareo Islands.)
Many Scottish cavers cave in the Dales and places other than just Scotland. Indeed a sizable percentage of the GSG membership are Mendip based. So why should they not give their individual views?
The CNCC is open to clubs in the "North of Britain". 'Britain' is an officially recognized shortening for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland so membership is open to any club in Scotland and Northern Ireland. The constitution does not say where the North begins and lines that have been mentioned in the past were just inventions convenient at the time.
cavermark
New member
McMole said:I opened this thread up anticipating that 'The West Lothian Question' beloved of Tam Dayell and other politicians had reared its head - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Lothian_question
I see it hasn't, for which we should be grateful (but Scottish cavers may decide that they shouldn't vote on issues that apply only south of the border). I suggest that the easiest solution for clubs pondering how they are going to poll their members on how to cast their club vote is to abstain and save all the hassle.
I was making a cheeky nod towards the west lothian question - well spotted.
My answer, like Bob's is that many scottish cavers cave all over the UK (and vice versa) so they certainly have a right to an opinion and a vote.