Mark Wright
Active member
Cap'n Chris said:
The Youth & Development Officer couldn't even be bothered to apologise for his absence.
Would you like me to propose you for the position?
Mark
Youth & Development - the way forward (Split)
- Thread starter Mark Wright
- Start date
The Youth & Development Officer couldn't even be bothered to apologise for his absence.
Would you like me to propose you for the position?
Mark
Rob
Well-known member
True to a certain degree, but have you ever been to a CHECC event? Student caving is alive and kicking!Cap'n Chris said:
The Y&D Officer does a lot for the cause, in fact he's the main reason i'll be attending the June weekend. I think you should be more respectful than spreading shame based on a volunteer missing one council meeting...Cap'n Chris said:
Also, surely open negativity in our sport is not going to encourage more youth in?
Mark Wright
Active member
Rob said:
I probably didn't help by suggesting that Rostam couldn't be bothered to offer his apologies. Having looked back through Council minutes its clear Rostam does actually do quite a lot for University cavers as Rob has pointed out.
However, not all young cavers go to university. I didn't go to university but was lucky enough to join SUSS when i was 15 as no other club would allow under 18's to join.
Maybe Chris could work with Rostam and concentrate on developing young non university cavers.
Mark
2xw
Active member
The BCA would probably slow down/stifle anything for younger cavers at the moment.
Mark does make a point about non-university cavers (unfortunately SUSS can no longer accept under 18s), but Ido wonder how you would engage with them - the scouts do a pretty good job but I guess that's through an organisation where the young people are already there. I guess professionals would play a role but where would they then point them to?
Mark does make a point about non-university cavers (unfortunately SUSS can no longer accept under 18s), but Ido wonder how you would engage with them - the scouts do a pretty good job but I guess that's through an organisation where the young people are already there. I guess professionals would play a role but where would they then point them to?
cap n chris
Well-known member
Rob said:
I apologise. I was unaware BCA organised CHECC events.
Mark Wright
Active member
2xw said:
I certainly don't claim to have an answer to it but if anyone is likely to have an answer it's the professionals as they are the ones who are most likely to have regular contact with potential cavers in schools and youth groups.
I started caving when I was in the scouts though this wasn?t as organized as it is today, and was also lucky enough to have a PE teacher at school who took us out climbing and caving in the late 70's. I was even allowed to rig a set of ropes in the school gym and practice my SRT skills while the rest of the class kicked a football around. I can't imagine that sort of thing would be allowed these days though.
It was certainly very difficult to join a club and it was only through my dad working at Sheffield University that I was introduced to SUSS via Paul Mackrill, who happened to take his Premier carbide lamp into the Mech. Eng. department to have it mended, that I ended up joining. I was actually only 14 when I joined SUSS in 1979 and was then lucky enough to join their 1980 Austria expedition. But for that, I would probably not have continued caving.
Remember professional cavers are subsidised by the rest of the BCA membership to the tune of +/- ?5K a year due to some perceived idea that professional cavers provide a significant benefit to the wider caving community by introducing new people to caving. If this is the case then I'd be happy to support some sort of subsidy. Personally I'm not convinced but would be happy to see the evidence to prove otherwise.
Maybe Cap?n Chris can enlighten us all on the youth and development work I am led to believe he is currently doing at Wookey Hole and make some suggestions as to how the rest of us can help the development of younger cavers.
Maybe other professional cavers could tell us about the youth and development work they are carrying out around the country and what success it brings.
For some years I have been involved in running a climbing wall in the Kidz Field at Glastonbury Festival and we have helped introduce very many young people into climbing and given their parents valuable information on how to help develop their child?s climbing further. We usually have over 1,000 kids on the wall during the Festival.
I will be speaking with the festival organizers in a couple of weeks about the possibility of taking the BCA cave down there for the 2019 Glastonbury Festival. 2018 will be a fallow year.
Admittedly, it?s a lot easier for kids to get involved in climbing at their local wall than it is for them to get involved in caving, and as 2xw says, where would they be directed to if they did develop an interest.
I wonder what experience those who have taken the BCA cave to other events have had?
What are clubs doing to bring in younger members?
Children who's parents cave are well catered for but what about those, like me, who's parents weren't cavers?
Mark
Mark Wright
Active member
Could an administrator split this thread from Bob's first post and call it 'Youth & Development, a way forward' please.
Cheers,
mark
Cheers,
mark
Tommy
Active member
Just a few thoughts on my personal contact with the underground prior to university.
I know that the Robin Wood outdoor centre has an indoor cave facility as that was one of my first experiences with 'caving', alongside family trips to White Scar and other show caves. http://www.robinwood.co.uk/activity/3-caving/
Scouts took us camping in an old mine in the South Lakes, not sure they'd get away with that 12 years on; looking back it was proper dodgy! https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/broughton-mills-slate-quarry-mine-duddon-valley-dec-2013-jan-2014.t86394
Schools can more easily justify spending their budget on indoor climbing walls than caving I should think, especially with the growth of competition climbing.
Perhaps caving should become more competitive if we are to attract a wider and younger demographic. That is, beyond those who'd 'explore' their way into the hobby anyway via other outdoor pursuits. Any ideas?
I know that the Robin Wood outdoor centre has an indoor cave facility as that was one of my first experiences with 'caving', alongside family trips to White Scar and other show caves. http://www.robinwood.co.uk/activity/3-caving/
Scouts took us camping in an old mine in the South Lakes, not sure they'd get away with that 12 years on; looking back it was proper dodgy! https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/broughton-mills-slate-quarry-mine-duddon-valley-dec-2013-jan-2014.t86394
Schools can more easily justify spending their budget on indoor climbing walls than caving I should think, especially with the growth of competition climbing.
Perhaps caving should become more competitive if we are to attract a wider and younger demographic. That is, beyond those who'd 'explore' their way into the hobby anyway via other outdoor pursuits. Any ideas?
nearlywhite
Active member
I don't wish to publish my council report prior to AGM, but will say this thread hits on a number of things that will be in it, so please do read the minutes of the next meeting.
I will be around at the BCA and more than happy to talk to people in person.
Yours (unrepentantly)
Rostam
I will be around at the BCA and more than happy to talk to people in person.
Yours (unrepentantly)
Rostam
Mark Wright
Active member
nearlywhite said:
Rostam,
Is there a reason why you can't publish your report until the AGM?
With such a ridiculously long agenda its likely you will only get 30 seconds to make your report and if those who can't attend the AGM have to wait for the minutes to be published most of the caving Youth will be drawing their pension.
Mark
2xw
Active member
Topimo said:
There's a number of good points here.
Re: artificial caves. The one at the centre I worked at was quite useful and a surprising amount could be done in it, younger kids are more interested in fun games and stuff in them than exploring - the BCA one is good but IMO is quite tough and not very much like actual caving!. We would expand on this by taking them to a real cave (a day out where half the group did Valley Entrance and the other half had a quick look in Yordas then walked over the top and learnt some limestone stuff). I suspect this is done in quite a lot of centres that are similar to Robinwood. A potential idea is circulating publication/leaflets/signs or whatever about how to get into caving to these outdoor centres. Obviously there are costs associated with this and one wonders where you would signpost them to (probably the scouts and similar orgs?) The onus here is really on "professionals" to encourage young people to seek out opportunities for outdoor recreation beyond just their stay at the centre - this should be done regardless of the sport but is perhaps not done enough. I probably did not do this enough when I did this kind of work.
You are right about the budget Re climbing especially as it becomes an olympic sport and hte growth of competition climbing. This is also somewhat as a result of their governing bodies engaging with the education sector. Climbing has been available as a GCSE option as part of the curricula for some time now (bouldering has recently been added). Think how many non-competitive sports are taught in schools however - barely any.
Not sure how you could make caving competitive but suspect it's lack of competition probably plays a part as you point out. Maybe we need some 'its a knockout' style plexiglass cave courses - I'd watch it! :
Caving in scouting is really a minority activity ( seems to keep me quite busy though). In the country there are only about 160 permit holder in scouting to take scouts caving (other activity providers are available).
Where we are there is only one decent artificial system and thats in the next county. we take cubs, scout and explorers on trips to a local mine, other that that we take scouts and explorers on weekends to the mendips (150 miles away for us) where they tackle gradually more adventurous trips. we have some keen older ones that cave with us regularly, and we have some in their 20's that are now leaders that started caving as scouts. when they are looking at Uni's I do make sure they are checking their criteria properly with ones with cave clubs.
The struggle is being able to do more with the keen ones to keep them interested
Where we are there is only one decent artificial system and thats in the next county. we take cubs, scout and explorers on trips to a local mine, other that that we take scouts and explorers on weekends to the mendips (150 miles away for us) where they tackle gradually more adventurous trips. we have some keen older ones that cave with us regularly, and we have some in their 20's that are now leaders that started caving as scouts. when they are looking at Uni's I do make sure they are checking their criteria properly with ones with cave clubs.
The struggle is being able to do more with the keen ones to keep them interested
cap n chris
Well-known member
Could write several pages on this topic as it's one that has occupied much thought for over a decade; Rostam has my sympathies as I believe most of the principle hurdles to developing youth caving in this country lie within the structures of our organisations which is an unintended consequence of the pub/drinking-based nature of British caving, combined with age of consent/insurance/liability restrictions. For these reasons I suspect Y&D's focus is on people who have legally become adults, e.g. CHECC.
