Author Topic: Pandora and the Klondyke valley  (Read 585 times)

Offline Tegwin

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Pandora and the Klondyke valley
« on: June 12, 2017, 08:31:56 pm »
Is anyone familiar with pandora mine in gwydir forest, north Wales?

Was up there last week looking at where the workings were and would like to get underground into the deep workings (assuming they are still accessible). Not something I want to do solo.

Is anyone knowledgeable based up that way fancy a bit of underground fun?

Also curious to find some info about the klondyke mine. Odly missing from the history books I have.

Offline Ian Adams

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Re: Pandora and the Klondyke valley
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2017, 08:34:08 pm »
www.ucet.org.uk

Klondyke : http://ucet.org.uk/~ucet9504/index.php/forum/21-knowledge-bank/838-klondyke-lead-mine

Pandora mine is in the "Mines of the Gwydyr Forest Part 3" by John Bennett and Robert W. Vernon (Klondyke should be too)


 ;)

Ian
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Offline Tegwin

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Re: Pandora and the Klondyke valley
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2017, 10:39:49 pm »
Interestingly Klondyke is now gated... very securely...

I have Part 3 but oddly no drawings or descriptions of the klondyke mine bar a minor footnote.

Anybody know where the Pandora through trip of old is and if its still doable?

Offline Pete K

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Re: Pandora and the Klondyke valley
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2017, 10:43:30 pm »
Access to Pandora is a no go for the through trip. The shafts are on private land and there is no allowed access AFAIK.
Klondyke is, as you say, locked now but I would not know who to speak to. If you contact Cave Access Ltd (Google them) you'll see there are lots of good trips opening up in the area, just a shame that the 2 you mention are not accessible right now. They may also be able to offer advice on the 2 mentioned sites.

Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: Pandora and the Klondyke valley
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2017, 10:57:25 pm »
You couldn't spend more that 10 minutes in Klondyke. God know why it's been gated.

Pandora through trip when access was permitted was straightforward. Obvious entrance on the Francis Lode with a rubber car mat protected descent (you had to provide your own) to an intermediate series of workings. Another descent via an ore hopper led to the Pontifex Level, with deep wade to entrance.

Shame access not granted. I guess this is for insurance reasons rather than landowner being anti mine explorer.

Robin

Offline Dave Tyson

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Re: Pandora and the Klondyke valley
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2017, 11:45:39 pm »
Technically the pontiflex adit is on forestry land and so, in theory, Cave Access Limited could try and agree access with NRW through the adit. The issue is that at some stage you pass from the area under the NRW (forestry) land into an area under the privately owned land. I have a feeling that the transition occurs about 1/2 of the way along the adit and the chamber you reach with a false floor and SS safety wires is definitely under the farm land as is the rest of the mine apart from a small section where the stopes reach the surface on the forestry land.

In the past some people have used the hole at the top of stope on forestry land to access the first pitch and then travel through, however it is not clear who owns the mineral rights and without clarifying that (a difficult proposition) we have to err on the side of caution and cannot adopt the mine. It is a great shame, but the farmer is adamant that he owns the lot and his legal representatives have said no to access. CAL have to respect that - at some stage the land may change hands and a fresh approach may be possible.

There have been reports of 'issues' when people have tried to get in at the top from either the forestry land or farm land and it is clear that attempts at access from this area are monitored. CAL has no jurisdiction and so cannot give any advice...
 
Dave (for CAL)

Offline royfellows

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Re: Pandora and the Klondyke valley
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2017, 08:52:13 am »
Klondyke is only a blind trial, on the face of it the grill and gate is a piece of nonsense.

The fancy portal is down to a mining share scam which is described in a paper "PARC MINE, LLANRWST. NORTH WALES by RUSSELL BAYLES" and worth reading. I have this from the late George Hall but am unsure of the copyright situation so have not uploaded it anywhere.

The level never was a working mine, it related entirely to the working of shareholders rather than ground.

Thank God Samsung don't make caving lamps.

Offline royfellows

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Thank God Samsung don't make caving lamps.

Offline mch

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Re: Pandora and the Klondyke valley
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2017, 08:31:01 pm »
Makes very interesting reading Roy - thanks for posting the link.

Offline GT

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Re: Pandora and the Klondyke valley
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2017, 08:34:32 pm »
Sadly the bulk of Pandora (mineral rights and all) are predominantly owned by a farmer who was poorly advised by the FUW in that he'd be liable if there was an incident in the mine. He rather aggressively withdrew access and has been very unwilling to discuss re-opening access. His primary concern comes from almost dropping a tractor down a shaft which had been capped with railway sleepers and grassed over so he was unaware of it! Over the years a few of these shaft tops have rotten away and fallen in; clearly he's concerned about people wandering off the footpath and down one of the holes.

Theoretically you could access via the lower levels and stay within what was the FC boundaries (now NRW), but for that you'd need permission from NRW as there is a by-law prohibiting access (so it's a criminal rather than just a civil issue). Lovely mine, but politically best to stay away.

As for the Klondike and other mines within the gorge upstream of the gated mine; they are all pretty small (beware of the one right of the stream looking up, shortly after the hole where the water drops into a short but of workings) as there's a flooded shaft almost immediately within the entrance. Far enough in so you don't spot it, but close enough to the entrance where your eyes are not used to the dark and you can fall in. It's been the scene of various near misses over the years.

The gated mine is a very short trial. The land owner had an "asset management consultant" take a look at his land and noticed that many outdoor centres were using the mine with groups. They suggested he gate it and ask for a pound per person to enter so he could put his feet up and retire on the profits. The gate must have cost him a small fortune, and no centre was willing to part with cash for such a short insignificant trip, not to mention the shift in liability to the land owner, so I assume the land owner had a few choice words for his consultant!

Again discussions on re-opening the mine have fallen on deaf ears...

Offline royfellows

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Re: Pandora and the Klondyke valley
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2017, 09:00:03 pm »
The gated mine is a very short trial. The land owner had an "asset management consultant" take a look at his land and noticed that many outdoor centres were using the mine with groups. They suggested he gate it and ask for a pound per person to enter so he could put his feet up and retire on the profits. The gate must have cost him a small fortune, and no centre was willing to part with cash for such a short insignificant trip, not to mention the shift in liability to the land owner, so I assume the land owner had a few choice words for his consultant!

Certainly in keeping with the history of the mine
 ;D
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Offline GT

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Re: Pandora and the Klondyke valley
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2017, 09:10:44 pm »
Yep, the irony was not wasted...