Threads being locked too often?

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Simon Wilson

New member
So why was the Dinah Rose thread locked without any explanation? Somebody mentioned the word bickering unnecessarily in my opinion. I did not read what I would call 'bickering'. There was a bit of sarcasm that I thought was mildly amusing. Maybe the pendulum has swung to far.
 

Peter Burgess

New member
My post there was purely out of frustration for someone starting YET ANOTHER CRoW topic. What was the point? But there are only a few blunt tools in the moderator toolbox, and the more subtle intricate tools are "hard work".
 

Simon Wilson

New member
People are going to keep starting CRoW threads. It is the most talked about topic on here and it isn't going to go away. There are people who often get a bit uncivil on here but they do it on any subject not just CRoW.

David Rose's post gave me food for thought and I was going to post on that locked thread...
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
Simon Wilson said:
People are going to keep starting CRoW threads. It is the most talked about topic on here and it isn't going to go away.

Probably 100% spot on, if a cursory check is anything to go by.

So far on UKC there appear to be the following Crow-related threads:

CROW and the Yorkshire Dales Local Access Forum (YDLAF)
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=15035.0
Clarifying the CROW access debate
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=15060.0
BCA statement on CROW land
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=15025.0
Conservation and consequences of CRoW access applied to caving
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=15045.0
QC's opinion on cavers' access to land under the CROW Act 2000
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=16701.0
Loss of cave access, CROW and other things
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=14948.0
If CRoW applies to caving - some comments
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=16869.0
Legal Action about Access - relevant to debate on access under CROW Act
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=16908.0
CROW Setion 26 - Which Caves Need Protection?
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=16820.0
QC says cavers DO have access to caves under the CROW Act
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=16816.0
CSCC's position on CRoW
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17403.0
Crow: yes vote. worst case?
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17199.0
BCA 'referendum' on CRoW 
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17137.0
Cost of CROW Referendum
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17197.0
CROW, climbers and caving
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17187.0
CRoW Opinion Poll
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17217.0
Clear Information source for CROW voters
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17420.0
The effect of changes in liability for Landowners under CRoW
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17182.0
BCA CRoW Poll Result
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17532.0
Dinah Rose QC even surer that caves covered by CROW after Notts 2 trip
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17581.0
CRoW Poll - Deadline looming!
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17490.0
What happens to liability if you go down a cave "illegally"? Another CROW point?
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17438.0
CROW and CHECC
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17155.0
Have you returned your CRoW Ballot yet?
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17411.0
CRoW Ballot ~ Corruption ?
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17405.0
CROW make my mind up time bca ballot papers are here
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17401.0
Stop CRoWing about it?
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17227.0
Crow Opinion Poll Poll
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17219.0
The new CRoW thread..
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=16874.0
CROW Caves on Mendip
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17419.0

... and there's probably even more than these!







 

Burt

New member
images
 

David Rose

Active member
I would have been happy to see the thread continue. However, I must say a couple of the comments were really pathetic.
 

Antwan

Member
David Rose said:
I would have been happy to see the thread continue. However, I must say a couple of the comments were really pathetic.

Hi Dave, I'm not dismissing the work you and your sister have done at all and appreciate the contribution to the sport however, The post of yours this thread refers to I don't really see the point?

Post a trip report by all means, that would be an appropriate place to put that information. It just seems to be an antagonising post aimed towards anyone who had concerns about the negative Impact crow may have. and for that reason I would stand by whoever locked it.

I did write a reply about how I disagree with your statement but found it hard not to look like a character attack on your sister so I have self censored my self.
 

droid

Active member
David.

Seems to me the whole thread was an attempt to remind people of your sister's contribution to the CRoW debate, and to let people know you are friends with the owner of the forum....

 

Pegasus

Administrator
Staff member
[gmod]Droid, If you'd rather threads weren't locked so often, please avoid getting personal, thank you. [/gmod]
 

David Rose

Active member
Droid, I don't think anyone who has followed this debate needs reminding of my sister's contribution. The fact that I am a friend of Tim Allen is also no secret, as readers of the Mail on Sunday will know:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1296308/Into-abyss-Stretching-counties-70-miles-inside-Britains-vast-newly-pioneered-cave-system.html

No doubt Peter Burgess, in view of your intensely scholarly and reasoned comment about the Mail (though I write only for the Mail on Sunday, which is editorially separate) you regard this article as far-fetched A link between Lost Johns and Notts? A cave that covers three counties? No, quite impossible. Tabloid claptrap! Media hype!

Oh, wait a sec... http://ukcaving.com/board/Smileys/ukbCustomSmall/hmmm.gif

My post was simply a mention of a caving trip which happened to be Dinah's first for many years, and of course, her first since being asked to write her opinion. But it did have a serious message. As devotees of this argument are aware, much turns on the long pre-CROW use of terms such as "open air" in relation to recreation, and its origins in the movement to get people out of cities and into healthy recreational activities such as walking, climbing, and, we argue, caving. This definition was absorbed into the Act. Dinah's immediate and instinctive response, informed by her long legal experience, was that having again experienced caving, it should not lawfully be distinguished from other activities that have been recognised as being covered by the CROW Act, and any judge who was taken caving would come to the same view.

I can tell you that on the afternoon of New Year's Day the surface deluge was pushing an awful lot of fresh, open air (and some water) down the entrance series of Notts 2. The draught was strong. Another reason why to dwell on whether a place has a roof should not be the point. Another quote from Dinah during the trip: "Going down this cave is just like canyoning with a roof, and legally, it should not be seen as being any different."
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
"Going down this cave is just like canyoning with a roof"

...Instantly triggered a memory of doing some Gorge Walking (kinda like canyoning but considerably more tame!) for an outdoor centre that considered the cave leadership award well suited for the activity, covering similar terrain and obstacles as it does.
 

Peter Burgess

New member
Thanks for the sarcasm, David. It doesn't surprise me. The "Jack Horner" comment was serious, though. Something any good writer should be aware of. No doubt Dinah's reasoning is sound, I don't think anybody is questioning it.
 

Simon Wilson

New member
David Rose said:
My post was simply a mention of a caving trip which happened to be Dinah's first for many years, and of course, her first since being asked to write her opinion. But it did have a serious message. As devotees of this argument are aware, much turns on the long pre-CROW use of terms such as "open air" in relation to recreation, and its origins in the movement to get people out of cities and into healthy recreational activities such as walking, climbing, and, we argue, caving. This definition was absorbed into the Act. Dinah's immediate and instinctive response, informed by her long legal experience, was that having again experienced caving, it should not lawfully be distinguished from other activities that have been recognised as being covered by the CROW Act, and any judge who was taken caving would come to the same view.

That is what I got from it. What some people don't seem to appreciate is that a person does not become a QC without being capable of demonstrating that they can be objective in their professional judgements. They are also people who have lives full of experiences which elicit subjective responses. From David's first post I assumed that Dinah wanting to experience caving was possibly as a result of an interest raised because of the request to consider CRoW and I respect and admire her the more for that.
 
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