UK, cave training way behind the curve?

cap n chris

cap n chris

Well-known member
14551024142_b64e7fc196.jpg


Some Spanish caving friends are attending a Caving Conference in Cantabria and I saw their pictures of the training facility which they are using:

14365336858_1cef8402c4.jpg


14365477437_72b59354c2.jpg


14365336438_4bf052278e.jpg


14365477357_249cd0a3f5.jpg


14572033833_5f9241023b.jpg


14548524711_63e2f66a8c.jpg


There are many other Caving Colleges in Spain, and other European nations, where young children are professionally trained in conservation, SRT, surveying, photography etc.:
Andalucia, Grazalema/Villaluenga:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVK_qZYCC4k

Elsewhere in Andalucia, in Malaga:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKSH_DpdFpw

In France there's the Petzl V. Axess Training Facility:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCe0EK4EGSA

Croatia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RelzjnucJdE

etc..
 
cap n chris

cap n chris

Well-known member
.... and it begs the obvious question....

Is the UK lagging behind?:

14572202743_c4653e8069.jpg

Pic: Maxine Bateman

... or am I unaware of some rather marvellous cave training facility (or facilities) which we have hidden away somewhere or another?

Maybe the traditional UK cave training philosophy (tantamount to "basically no-one needs any as you'll soon pick it up as you go along") could benefit from a radical and significant overhaul/rethink?... something to ponder in the run up to us hosting the European Speleological Congress in 2016?
 
S

Speleokitty

New member
Cap'n Chris said:
... or am I unaware of some rather marvellous cave training facility (or facilities) which we have hidden away somewhere or another?
Click to expand...

In the UK I think they are generally called caves.
 
cap n chris

cap n chris

Well-known member
LOL!  :)

Not entirely sure training a group of children SRT in a *live* environment would be the best primer. I doubt many insurers would either.
 
N

nearlywhite

Active member
I've certainly had a fair amount of experience training students at Mark Wright's tower. We couldn't ask for better facilities. Train SRT above ground, everything else - go under.

Awesome pictures though.
 
bograt

bograt

Active member
How much of the facility is natural, and who funds it?

Its very impressive but I cringe when I think of what "our" uncivil servants would make out of it! :eek:
 
alastairgott

alastairgott

Well-known member
Personally I know of an artificial cave under an outdoor centre in wales, certainly a little less sunny than spain!

And what's wrong with the crawl space under the YSS or the toilet holes in the shepton :p
 
J

jasonbirder

Member
Whilst very sexy and impressive looking...I can't help but think that its a bit of overkill for a spot of SRT training...
How complex a facility do you need to practice a rebelay/deviation and changeover?
Actually, most of it looked like a recreational bouldering/via ferrata etc course...rather than a cave training facility...
Cos...you know you can't really train for caving without being underground ;)
 
mrodoc

mrodoc

Well-known member
All very impressive but it begs the question "Why do British cavers make a lot of big discoveries?". I also haven't noticed the continentals being very conservation minded in the past - things might have changed a bit of course.
 
cap n chris

cap n chris

Well-known member
jasonbirder said:
Actually, most of it looked like a recreational bouldering/via ferrata etc course...rather than a cave training facility...
Cos...you know you can't really train for caving without being underground ;)
Click to expand...

Agree that it appears to be a multi-discipline venue but the VF element could be usefully utilised to replicate traverse rescue methods (usually an overlooked topic in scenarios which tend to focus on hauling but which often miss out the "what now?" bit when getting to the pitch head).

Night-time use (if the locals allow) could make it more cave-like, I guess, but one suspects it would be "beer-o-clock" by then for the Brits.

[I hope my quoting hasn't resulted in you feeling harassed or bullied too much].
 
P

Peter Burgess

New member
There was a time when pilots were trained in aircraft. Now there is extensive use of simulators. I do like to think that when I fly the pilot has actually flown a real aircraft before being let loose on the Airbus A319. Go on, call me old fashioned.
 
Bottlebank

Bottlebank

New member
Anywhere with a 3m or 4m drop and a secure take off seems ideal to me, underground or over ground, to get the basics established i.e. which way up the kit goes, using cowstails properly, safe abseiling and the difference between a rebelay and a deviation.

For preference after an hour or two of practice I'd sooner get people underground, it's the only way to get them used to actual cave conditions. We're lucky in the Dales in that we've quite a few easy SRT trips where people can get used to things.

Must admit I think Chris has a point on the "what to do at the pitch head" on self rescues.

That said the Spanish setup looks fun :)
 
graham

graham

New member
back in the Good Old DaysTM we used  to think that nobody should be allowed to do a given pitch using SRT unless they could climb the equivalent distance on ladder first.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top