Mossdale-Black Keld

Wren

New member
Just been examining some shafts above Scar Gill House, on the path up towards Capplestone Gate.  We found a few very interesting holes and I just wondered if anyone had investigated them, or knew of any reports.  These shafts are almost in a direct line from Mossdale to Black Keld and should any lead to a way through to the Great Scar then there is the possibility of great glory!  Cheers.
 

Pie Muncher

Member
You can guarentee CPC & WRPC have had their noses in them all. None have yet been found to penitrate far below the surface or really "get going". But definately worth rechecking as things change over time, probably most importantly attitudes up there to digging.
Good luck.
 

ChrisJC

Well-known member
According to The Wharfedale Mines by M.C.Gill, page 61, .. a level was driven along South Cocklake Vein from SD99377032 at an elevation of 1375ft. By 1863, this level was fitted with iron rails, was over 985 yards long ....

Assuming I have correctly identified the holes as being the South Cocklake Vein, then there should be the level running from the obvious tip at the Western end of the line of holes.

In my experience, every one of those shafts will have collapsed, and if they extended down as far as the level, then the level will be blocked many times too!

Some more research would be required to see how extensive the mine workings were.

There are a lot of mine workings on Grassington Moor, in fact, there is at least one book devoted solely to that subject.

Chris.
 

knuckledragger

New member
Hi there Wren

As you well know, there are hundreds of shafts, both man made and natural on Grassington moor. A lot of them have collapsed or been filled in.

Just reading a book about Eli Simpson at the moment. In the late 30's he photographed and examined all the shafts and shakeholes between Grimwith Resevoir and Mossdale/Bycliffe. He then recruited a young Bob Leakey to descend them but found nothing. Shortly after this Leakey pushed Mossdale Caverns and found about 4 miles of passage but not the Master Cave.

Simpson reckons theres something bigger than GG under Grassington Moor (me too).

I was hoping to find 'caverns measureless to man' last time I went down Fossil Pot but came out with nothing but a ripped caving suit and a few fossils.

There is an open shaft (quite deep) between Fossil Pot and Black Keld which I'm hoping to descend soon. Just working on access.  I know loads of people and clubs (especially your old club - ULSA) have poked around up there in the past but things change and you never know!! Will let you know if I find anything big!!

Will lend you the Simpson book. Good to see you on Wednesday at GrassWoods.
 

Wren

New member
Hi,

Thanks all for the info.  Grassington Moor is a bit far over but as you know the drainage is in the same direction.

Many of the shafts will have been blocked with wood which may now have collapsed.  The interesting point about the area above scar Gill is that the lower shafts are not all that far above the Great Scar and (just) may have penetrated.  However before any one gets excited, from what I've seen, it would take a major digging effort to open up these shafts, and of course there are the access problems.
 

stevejw

Member
knuckledragger said:
There is an open shaft (quite deep) between Fossil Pot and Black Keld which I'm hoping to descend soon. Just working on access.

Seems to have gone quiet in Fossil recently. Any luck re the above?
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
I'm not especially familiar with the area in question (my patch is further west) but over the years I have heard various caving clubs talk about the possibilities of excavating a way into the lost caverns of Grassington Moor. I've heard several people who know the area well state that the relevant shaft can be precisely identified as the caverns are well documented.

A few years ago we sank a 45 m shaft above Titan in the Peak District, 18 m of this through solid ground. We hit various problems along the way (e.g. shoring difficulties) but we eventually sorted all problems out and the job was done over a relatively short space of time. I'm just sitting here pondering on the "Derbyshite credit crunch expedition idea" (see elsewhere on this forum). If Dales cavers really put their minds to it (and it would almost certainly need to be an inter club thing) it might be possible to do something similar on Grassington Moor and get back into the lost caverns. Makes you think, don't it?
 

C.Raven

Member
See CaveMaps.org C.P.C Journal 1-5 (1953) Lost Caverns of Grassington Moor, also B.P.C Bulletin 6-10 (1996) Grassington Moor Turf Pits.
 

dunc

New member
Pitlamp said:
Speaking of which, is it an SSSI?
Depends where they are located? Looking at Natural England mapping website it shows a couple of SSSIs nearby; Grass Wood and over to Conistone Dib and another covering Mossdale and south to Gill House and How Gill Nick?. The bit inbetween and the mine workings shown on the OS map are not covered..
 

Goydenman

Well-known member
Pitlamp said:
I'm not especially familiar with the area in question (my patch is further west) but over the years I have heard various caving clubs talk about the possibilities of excavating a way into the lost caverns of Grassington Moor. I've heard several people who know the area well state that the relevant shaft can be precisely identified as the caverns are well documented.

A few years ago we sank a 45 m shaft above Titan in the Peak District, 18 m of this through solid ground. We hit various problems along the way (e.g. shoring difficulties) but we eventually sorted all problems out and the job was done over a relatively short space of time. I'm just sitting here pondering on the "Derbyshite credit crunch expedition idea" (see elsewhere on this forum). If Dales cavers really put their minds to it (and it would almost certainly need to be an inter club thing) it might be possible to do something similar on Grassington Moor and get back into the lost caverns. Makes you think, don't it?

You are right Pitlamp a really exciting idea and a dig of that magnitude for such an awesome prize of a find calls for a combined effort. The Titan project for me raised the bar of what could be achieved in the digging world. The Grand Day out's were similar and they achieved something special as well. I have been quite jealous of the Derbys Credit crunch expedition - a good idea is worth copying - I'd be up for it.  (y)
 

ronaldjprice

New member
Deffo sounds like the shafts might be worth another go over, if you are short of a rope sherpa drop me a line I live quite close and have fancied a poke around for ages. (y)
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Can someone who knows identify the grid reference of the relevant shaft? Once we have this information we can make some discrete equiries. I'd be willing to help with this stage of things but realistically I'll not have time to get involved a great deal directly if this idea does get off the ground eventually.
 

braveduck

Active member
I suggested the idea of a multiclub dig to Howard Beck about three years ago,he thought it was a good idea and said he would make some enquires.Not seen him since but he might have some useful information.
I understand the moor is owned by a shooting syndicate who bought for a ?1 from the Duke of Devonshire,who did not want the responsibility of the mine shafts,many of which are covered by rotting wooden sleepers,this is now causing concern to YDNP.
Many years ago was up there in winter with snow in in all the holes a bit like now .
SE of Turf Pitts near the road was a small depression full of snow with a fantastic blow hole!
I should have gone back this winter and tried to find it again.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
There's a good case for a properly constructed cap on the relevant shaft (very much like that on Titan) which would then remove landowner's concerns about that particular shaft. Obviously that would have to be part of any agreement whilst seeking permission.

There's a lot of information gathering needed before this could be realistically progressed. I'm willing to help with that at least.

So - can anyone tell us the grid reference of the shaft in question?
 

braveduck

Active member
I believe West Turf Pitts is the shaft in question ,no danger at that one at the moment its run in full up.
I do have all the maps and plans about the lost caverns, but they are lost in the house somewhere.
I find your enthusiasm interesting Pitlamp, I did mention this to you a few years back and you said it was do deep and beyond caver abilities to achive access.So glad you have had a change of hart on this one,Titan must have had something to do with it.
The big problem will be the syndicate.They broke the rules during Foot and Mouth,and blamed the out door brigade for shopping them.
 

braveduck

Active member
Found some of my maps at last the shaft is Old Turf Pits.
West Turf Pits would be worth persuing if  Old TP was a no go.
 
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