Bolting Question

al

Member
I put two glue-ins into sandstone last Friday using Rawlplug's R-CAS-V-10 resin ampules. Came to test them this morning, and one was rock solid, but the other still had movement. I eventually managed to remove the mover by hand, and found the resin not to be set. What's the likely cause?
 

pwhole

Well-known member
I'm guessing most likely insufficient mixing of the resin and catalyst? Were the bolts rotated in with a drill? The glass fragments and rotation are meant to 'stir' everything up enough to activate it. If so, I'm not sure. Does damp affect the curing? Sandstone may hold a fair bit of water in the pores, but I'm sure the resin can cope with that sort of thing.
 

al

Member
Could be the mixing, as I've been turning the bolts by hand (which I've always done, and this is the first failure). The hole was new and dry when I put in the bolt, and I made sure that all the dust was blown/brushed out.

 

SamT

Moderator
Damp shouldn't affect the curing as its a chemical reaction.  The colder the temp, the slower the curing time.
mixing is most likely the issue by the sounds of it.
 

Simon Wilson

New member

Mark Wright

Active member
Unless the Rawl resin ampule was faulty, which I think is most unlikely, then it is very likely that the resin wasn't mixed properly.

I've never actually used the Rawl ampules but have used very many of the 10mm Spit Maxima ampules supplied by Petzl for their Collinox anchors. I've always fixed the anchors by hand but with twice as many twists than the 10 recommended by Petzl and have never had any fail the 6kN axial test.

I've never found them difficult to install, as Simon suggests, and most of the ones I have installed have been whilst hanging from a rope. Unless you were installing them upside down, which would be a bit of a faff whichever system was used, I can't think of an easier resin anchor system to install.

I've never been convinced that the drill powered mixing system in the video is better than doing it by hand.

It would be interesting to see a number of different anchor systems installed in a block of clear perspex to see exactly which method gives the best visible mix. Obviously testing is the only way to know its ultimate strength.   

What type of anchor did you (al) install as this might have a bearing on the mixing?

It's a good job they were tested before being put into service.

Mark



 

al

Member
Thanks everybody for all the tips, advice and the interesting videos.

For once, this isn't a caving job - I'm putting these bolts on my house, which is an 1890s building above Hayfield - hence the sandstone. And the purpose of the bolts is to make it easier to paint my barge boards etc (using ladders). I've already installed some Fixe glue-ins on the front of the house for this purpose, and they all worked OK. I still have one Fixe, but my new glue-ins are Raumer.

I've used ampules and the manual spinning method in the past on limestone too (and on rope), and this particular bolt is the first one I've ever had an issue with.
 

Bob Mehew

Well-known member
Although moisture is not thought to be a factor in this example we did test a set of anchors and resin in typically damp holes following washing and then drying with a chammy leather verses another set in holes filled with water which was displaced by the injected resin.  There was only a slight reduction in strength for our resin of choice, see http://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=equipment_techniques:bp_anc_fischer_resin_report_150418.pdf .  Mixing is usually the cause of uncured resin, see Simon's work at http://www.resinanchor.co.uk/4.html for problems with cartridge resin systems.   
 

andrewmcleod

Well-known member
rhychydwr1 said:
WOW!  Most impressive:

https://youtu.be/xnzD5VoAfP0

The destructions on the FIS V 360S say you need to go through 3 cycles of blowing and brushing (as a minimum), not just blow-brush-blow. That is of course for all the approved fixings they describe, none of which are caving anchors in damp limestone...
 
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