Pete K
Well-known member
It seems to me that one of the issues with the BCA meetings is the manner in which any number of proposals under any name and in any state can be submitted.
A poorly thought out proposal will likely eat up lots of meeting time as those present try to understand it, weigh up its merits and drawbacks and likely argue a bit if it is something contentious. One of the best ways I can think of to help meetings run more smoothly is to not place barriers to members making proposals, but to ensure that any proposals that are put forward have already been discussed by a number of members and received their support. If a proposal already has some backing by cavers before being submitted to BCA, it is likely already in a state where it will move forward and should hopefully not require vast amounts of time at the meeting to decipher the intent.
I have not attended BCA meetings and may well have got my understanding of the format wrong or not read the constitutional document correctly, so apologies for any procedural errors. I have written what I feel might be a reasonable proposal for making sure all proposals submitted to BCA have been discussed and received support from cavers before they can be submitted. In the spirit of this proposal, I'm posting the draft text here for anyone to read and make comment on. One of the main things for me is that I'm keen to hear of any possible unintended consequences of this proposal. I have no interest in stymieing the meeting's ability to be proactive and flexible on the day or to restrict any members' ability to have input into their representative body.
Once feedback is received I'll make any modifications and look towards submitting it directly or via my club/RCC. I had intended to do that ahead of the AGM, but I'm not sure if/when we're getting one in 2020, so just thought I'd get this out there now.
Proposal
That there should be new minimum requirements set out for the submittal of proposals in advance of BCA General Meetings. These requirements are to be set out for each type of BCA member who is permitted to make proposals to BCA meetings.
Reason
Currently it is quite easy to submit proposals to BCA meetings. This situation allows for proposals that may not have been through a proper democratic process or that have not had an appropriate level of consideration and detail worked out before submission. This may lead to lots of wasted time as poorly prepared proposals are discussed and rejected or bounced back for more details. This proposal I am presenting here is intended to change the way proposals are put to BCA meetings so that when presented, the proposal has been discussed and approved by a body or is already supported by several individuals. It is hoped that this will reduce the volume of proposals that need to be discussed at BCA meetings and make sure those that are presented are of merit and can move through to votes more efficiently.
Current membership categories and proposal rights
From the BCA Manual of Operations: ?The constitution is unclear on who can submit an agenda item or proposal for an AGM and who can second motions. Thus a liberal interpretation should be taken that any member (Group or Individual) or constituent body, or BCA Council can do this.?
Individual Members ? Can submit a proposal with one other person acting as a seconder.
Caving Clubs ? Can submit a proposal.
Constituent Bodes ? Can submit a proposal.
Regional Caving Councils ? Can submit a proposal.
Details of proposed minimum requirements for accepting a proposal to be added to the agenda of a BCA General Meeting
Individual Members
That any submission from an Individual Member should be accompanied by 10 letters or emails of support from other individual members. This number is to include the proposer themselves, so a further 9 individuals will be required to have read and agreed to support the proposal.
Caving Clubs
That any proposal put forward in the name of a BCA Member Club must have been demonstrably shown to have been arrived at or discussed as part of a process where the members of that club have been involved. The minutes of the meeting where this proposal was agreed on should either be publicly available or in draft format awaiting approval at a subsequent meeting of the Club, but in all cases, it is expected that the proposal will be accompanied by those minutes. For ?micro-clubs? consisting of less than 20 members, who do not necessarily hold traditional format meetings, they should submit proposals in the same way as Individual members must, i.e. by accompanying the proposal with 10 supporting letters or emails. If a club has less than 10 members, then that should not bar it from submitting a proposal. These tiny clubs can meet the 10 supporting letters or email requirements by gaining the support of other BCA members not in their club, so long as these are noted on the submission.
Constituent Bodies
That any proposal put forward in the name of a BCA Member Constituent Body must have been demonstrably shown to have been arrived at or discussed as part of a process where the members of that body or its Executive have been involved. The minutes of the meeting where this proposal was agreed on should either be publicly available or in draft format awaiting approval at a subsequent meeting of the Constituent Body, but in all cases, it is expected that the proposal will be accompanied by those minutes.
Regional Caving Councils
That any proposal put forward in the name of a Regional Caving Council must have been demonstrably shown to have been arrived at or discussed as part of a process where the members of that body or its Executive have been involved. The minutes of the meeting where this proposal was agreed on should either be publicly available or in draft format awaiting approval at a subsequent meeting of the Regional Body, but in all cases, it is expected that the proposal will be accompanied by those minutes.
BCA Council
That any proposal put forward in the name of the BCA Council must have been demonstrably shown to have been arrived at or discussed as part of a process where the members of that Council have been involved. The minutes of the meeting where this proposal was agreed on should either be publicly available or in draft format awaiting approval at a subsequent meeting or, should be made available at the earliest opportunity if the Council has only met recently and not had a chance to publish its minutes yet. Where a proposal has arisen from an email discussion outside of a Council meeting, the BCA Council would be expected to produce evidence of this discussion upon request from any member present at the General Meeting should it be asked for.
Variances and terms
It is likely that a number of proposals, even when submitted having met all the criteria set out above, will be modified slightly in the process of discussion at BCA meetings. It is therefore included in the spirit of this guidance that so long as the basic intent of the proposal has not changed, only some of the details, then the proposal does not need to be taken away, re-approved and then re-presented to BCA at the next meeting and can proceed to a vote.
Meetings of Clubs, Constituent Bodies or Regions Councils can take place in a traditional face-to-face format or be held online. So long as they are quorate by that group?s own standard and they have minutes produced.
Individual members supporting a proposal must be named and have their BCA membership number included with the proposal. The proposer must also have permission to show the additional letters or emails confirming support of that proposal to the appropriate person collating agenda items for BCA meetings.
Proposals that arise organically from discussions at BCA General Meetings are to be dealt with in the normal way as set out in the BCA Manual of Operations and this proposal does not aim to restrict the ability of a meeting to do its business on the day.
I normally try to steer clear of politics, but perhaps the fact that so many of us do that is why we're in the situation we're currently in. If nothing else this post might start some discussion or get people to engage more with BCA. If it's a pile of poo then I'll run back to DCA committee and remain hidden there in future.
A poorly thought out proposal will likely eat up lots of meeting time as those present try to understand it, weigh up its merits and drawbacks and likely argue a bit if it is something contentious. One of the best ways I can think of to help meetings run more smoothly is to not place barriers to members making proposals, but to ensure that any proposals that are put forward have already been discussed by a number of members and received their support. If a proposal already has some backing by cavers before being submitted to BCA, it is likely already in a state where it will move forward and should hopefully not require vast amounts of time at the meeting to decipher the intent.
I have not attended BCA meetings and may well have got my understanding of the format wrong or not read the constitutional document correctly, so apologies for any procedural errors. I have written what I feel might be a reasonable proposal for making sure all proposals submitted to BCA have been discussed and received support from cavers before they can be submitted. In the spirit of this proposal, I'm posting the draft text here for anyone to read and make comment on. One of the main things for me is that I'm keen to hear of any possible unintended consequences of this proposal. I have no interest in stymieing the meeting's ability to be proactive and flexible on the day or to restrict any members' ability to have input into their representative body.
Once feedback is received I'll make any modifications and look towards submitting it directly or via my club/RCC. I had intended to do that ahead of the AGM, but I'm not sure if/when we're getting one in 2020, so just thought I'd get this out there now.
Proposal
That there should be new minimum requirements set out for the submittal of proposals in advance of BCA General Meetings. These requirements are to be set out for each type of BCA member who is permitted to make proposals to BCA meetings.
Reason
Currently it is quite easy to submit proposals to BCA meetings. This situation allows for proposals that may not have been through a proper democratic process or that have not had an appropriate level of consideration and detail worked out before submission. This may lead to lots of wasted time as poorly prepared proposals are discussed and rejected or bounced back for more details. This proposal I am presenting here is intended to change the way proposals are put to BCA meetings so that when presented, the proposal has been discussed and approved by a body or is already supported by several individuals. It is hoped that this will reduce the volume of proposals that need to be discussed at BCA meetings and make sure those that are presented are of merit and can move through to votes more efficiently.
Current membership categories and proposal rights
From the BCA Manual of Operations: ?The constitution is unclear on who can submit an agenda item or proposal for an AGM and who can second motions. Thus a liberal interpretation should be taken that any member (Group or Individual) or constituent body, or BCA Council can do this.?
Individual Members ? Can submit a proposal with one other person acting as a seconder.
Caving Clubs ? Can submit a proposal.
Constituent Bodes ? Can submit a proposal.
Regional Caving Councils ? Can submit a proposal.
Details of proposed minimum requirements for accepting a proposal to be added to the agenda of a BCA General Meeting
Individual Members
That any submission from an Individual Member should be accompanied by 10 letters or emails of support from other individual members. This number is to include the proposer themselves, so a further 9 individuals will be required to have read and agreed to support the proposal.
Caving Clubs
That any proposal put forward in the name of a BCA Member Club must have been demonstrably shown to have been arrived at or discussed as part of a process where the members of that club have been involved. The minutes of the meeting where this proposal was agreed on should either be publicly available or in draft format awaiting approval at a subsequent meeting of the Club, but in all cases, it is expected that the proposal will be accompanied by those minutes. For ?micro-clubs? consisting of less than 20 members, who do not necessarily hold traditional format meetings, they should submit proposals in the same way as Individual members must, i.e. by accompanying the proposal with 10 supporting letters or emails. If a club has less than 10 members, then that should not bar it from submitting a proposal. These tiny clubs can meet the 10 supporting letters or email requirements by gaining the support of other BCA members not in their club, so long as these are noted on the submission.
Constituent Bodies
That any proposal put forward in the name of a BCA Member Constituent Body must have been demonstrably shown to have been arrived at or discussed as part of a process where the members of that body or its Executive have been involved. The minutes of the meeting where this proposal was agreed on should either be publicly available or in draft format awaiting approval at a subsequent meeting of the Constituent Body, but in all cases, it is expected that the proposal will be accompanied by those minutes.
Regional Caving Councils
That any proposal put forward in the name of a Regional Caving Council must have been demonstrably shown to have been arrived at or discussed as part of a process where the members of that body or its Executive have been involved. The minutes of the meeting where this proposal was agreed on should either be publicly available or in draft format awaiting approval at a subsequent meeting of the Regional Body, but in all cases, it is expected that the proposal will be accompanied by those minutes.
BCA Council
That any proposal put forward in the name of the BCA Council must have been demonstrably shown to have been arrived at or discussed as part of a process where the members of that Council have been involved. The minutes of the meeting where this proposal was agreed on should either be publicly available or in draft format awaiting approval at a subsequent meeting or, should be made available at the earliest opportunity if the Council has only met recently and not had a chance to publish its minutes yet. Where a proposal has arisen from an email discussion outside of a Council meeting, the BCA Council would be expected to produce evidence of this discussion upon request from any member present at the General Meeting should it be asked for.
Variances and terms
It is likely that a number of proposals, even when submitted having met all the criteria set out above, will be modified slightly in the process of discussion at BCA meetings. It is therefore included in the spirit of this guidance that so long as the basic intent of the proposal has not changed, only some of the details, then the proposal does not need to be taken away, re-approved and then re-presented to BCA at the next meeting and can proceed to a vote.
Meetings of Clubs, Constituent Bodies or Regions Councils can take place in a traditional face-to-face format or be held online. So long as they are quorate by that group?s own standard and they have minutes produced.
Individual members supporting a proposal must be named and have their BCA membership number included with the proposal. The proposer must also have permission to show the additional letters or emails confirming support of that proposal to the appropriate person collating agenda items for BCA meetings.
Proposals that arise organically from discussions at BCA General Meetings are to be dealt with in the normal way as set out in the BCA Manual of Operations and this proposal does not aim to restrict the ability of a meeting to do its business on the day.
I normally try to steer clear of politics, but perhaps the fact that so many of us do that is why we're in the situation we're currently in. If nothing else this post might start some discussion or get people to engage more with BCA. If it's a pile of poo then I'll run back to DCA committee and remain hidden there in future.