Some git has taken some cave pearls from Bakers Pit :spank:. The pearls were photographed within the last two weeks so this has happened within the last two weeks. As access to Bakers is restricted to key holders it may be possible to find out who has taken them. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Nooooo! Not these ones, I hope?...



Baker's has some fine speleothems and the pearls are a nice feature of the cave. Removing any is bang out of order.

Clearly not enough "educators" in Devon.......

I understand there should be a log of key borrowing so it shouldn't be too hard to narrow down potential avenues of enquiry. If they can be traced and returned it would be good. While on the topic, would it be a useful Conservation project to replace some of the muddied/incomplete taping? I'm quite a distance from Devon but wouldn't rule out helping if it's thought worthy of doing - IIRC the tape in there is around a decade old, or older.

I was very gutted to see them removed!!there are still some in the pool but not as many and the ones spilled out in the side have gone too ive got some amazing photos of these its such a shame!!!
With regards to taping id be happy to redo this with someone, someone knows where they have gone! Maybe there does need to be a log book or something in there

Unfortunately Peter you can't educate pork!

Peter Burgess said:

Clearly not enough "educators" in Devon.......

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Grump Gnome said:

Unfortunately Peter you can't educate pork!

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I wondered how long it would take..... Gated, leader system, only solution, no compromise. 

Lazarus said:

Peter Burgess said:

Clearly not enough "educators" in Devon.......

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Grump Gnome said:

Unfortunately Peter you can't educate pork!

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I wondered how long it would take..... Gated, leader system, only solution, no compromise. 

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It's already gated, what's your solution?  :-\

I thought I had already made a tongue-in-cheek suggestion?
Make every cave gated and leader-led, simple. And then we can all sit back and watch caving be destroyed for most, apart from the privileged minority. I quite like this future, can we lobby the BCA for this to be actioned?

There's no point in making your views on anything known here. You can guarantee someone else will criticise whatever your opinion might be, and try to demonise you rather than the nobs who spoil our caves. Lazarus, if you are going to say anything, why not say what you think about the theft? There may be no perfect solution, but that doesn't, and isn't, going to stop me making whatever appropriate comment that comes to mind. If those who like to look for easy targets aimed their fire in the right direction instead of their fellow concerned cavers, we might get somewhere. As for you latest comment, ask yourself who now is encouraging argument rather than comment on the problem as originally posted?

So you don't have a solution to that problem. OK.

Peter Burgess said:

There's no point in making your views on anything known here. You can guarantee someone else will criticise whatever your opinion might be

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Strange that a fair number of people on here have an opinion. I've seen views/opinions made and people criticised by a fair number of "overly opinionated regulars" on this forum and yet a minor post by myself you seek to criticise.

It is after all, a forum, a place where ideas and views can be aired. If you can't accept people disagreeing with your particular opinion then you're in the wrong place. I've recently had someone, what you might call, criticising what I wrote, the thread is locked and I can't reply - I laughed and moved on. Try not to be so uptight.

To answer further queries, yes, as a responsible caver I'm appalled that someone who also calls themselves a caver could do such an act. But my post was aimed partly at your post which had a number of full-stops at the end which suggests it was a reference to other recent posts regarding "education" and then gnome with his pig reference - neither are really appropriate comments and serve no real purpose in resolving the problem. So both of you sit back and look at your posts and ask yourself if they are "appropriate"?

graham said:

So you don't have a solution to that problem. OK.

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You criticise me, sorry, someone else's words. So, do enlighten us all graham, what is your solution, as you're obviously the answer to all problems. Do tell me what YOU would do.

It takes two to argue. Bye. Remember the good advice Rhys gave us.

And there we go, Peter, point made, it's not arguing, it's differing opinions... Maybe we shouldn't argue/offer opinions, we should all just sit back and nod in agreement at some higher authority. A bit like society really, we all sit back and accept the crap government throw at us, we (a fair portion, not all) as a nation are soft  

Anyway, that's going O/T, I'm still disgusted by those actions and still waiting for the "solution" that graham obviously has in mind, otherwise he wouldn't have made that otherwise pointless post..

Err, no. I was merely pointing out that your sneering post about gates & leaders, a system that has been shown to be very effective at conserving caves, especially on Mendip, was empty unless you could show a viable alternative.

graham said:

Err, no. I was merely pointing out that your sneering post about gates & leaders, a system that has been shown to be very effective at conserving caves, especially on Mendip, was empty unless you could show a viable alternative.

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Very effective in a small number of cases and one that would not work wholesale. I'm still awaiting your solution. Well, no, actually I don't care, you'd close it to all but a minority, we all know that.

Lazarus said:

graham said:

Err, no. I was merely pointing out that your sneering post about gates & leaders, a system that has been shown to be very effective at conserving caves, especially on Mendip, was empty unless you could show a viable alternative.

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Very effective in a small number of cases and one that would not work wholesale. I'm still awaiting your solution. Well, no, actually I don't care, you'd close it to all but a minority, we all know that.

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Whereas you'd let everybody come in and see the hole where the pearls used to be. That'd work.

graham said:

Lazarus said:

graham said:

Err, no. I was merely pointing out that your sneering post about gates & leaders, a system that has been shown to be very effective at conserving caves, especially on Mendip, was empty unless you could show a viable alternative.

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Very effective in a small number of cases and one that would not work wholesale. I'm still awaiting your solution. Well, no, actually I don't care, you'd close it to all but a minority, we all know that.

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Whereas you'd let everybody come in and see the hole where the pearls used to be. That'd work.

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Did I say that? No, don't think I did. Diversion tactics yet again. Goodbye.

Lazarus said:

graham said:

Lazarus said:

graham said:

Err, no. I was merely pointing out that your sneering post about gates & leaders, a system that has been shown to be very effective at conserving caves, especially on Mendip, was empty unless you could show a viable alternative.

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Very effective in a small number of cases and one that would not work wholesale. I'm still awaiting your solution. Well, no, actually I don't care, you'd close it to all but a minority, we all know that.

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Whereas you'd let everybody come in and see the hole where the pearls used to be. That'd work.

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Did I say that? No, don't think I did. Diversion tactics yet again. Goodbye.

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No, you didn't say anything useful or practical at all and clearly you are not going to. You are merely going to sneer and when someone challenges you on that, you run. Goodbye.

Why does every thread here end in much the same argument between much the same people?  It gets nowhere.

The cave the pearls were stolen from is gated and has log book.

Either the log book tells you who is guilty or a key has escaped (or been copied).

I can imagine an unobserved 'newbie' stealing them - such a person should be both traceable and teachable.  The alternative is a 'caver' who should be severely disciplined with a baseball bat.

If you can't tell who from the log book its change the lock time.

Even a leader can't watch everything/everyone all the time.  Requiring leadership is only realistically needed in exceptional places and might well have made no difference in this case.

Crap happens...  That's life.    I just hope the pearls turn up and can be put back.