Vally ent rope has been removed

Alex

Alex

Well-known member
Just to let everyone here know, I belive CNCC have now completely removed the rope without putting any notices up! Most cavers just expect the rope to be there regardless of thier experiance!

Not everyone reads this forum, a group almost got stuck in there on saturday (I was on a different trip), but luckily had someone who could climb it, please PLEASE put a notice up ASAP at the ent to vally and the first bolt in Simpsons/Swinsto saying that the rope has been removed before a rescue situation is created or worse still someone dies as they have no escape when the cave is flooding.

Thankyou.
 
langcliffe

langcliffe

Well-known member
Alex said:
please PLEASE put a notice up ASAP at the ent to vally and the first bolt in Simpsons/Swinsto saying that the rope has been removed before a rescue situation is created or worse still someone dies as they have no escape when the cave is flooding.
Click to expand...

Please, CNCC, don't litter Valley Entrance, Swinsto, Simpson's, and Rowten with unnecessary notices just to pander to people who make silly assumptions. It is supposed to be a cave system, not a council-run adventure playground with full health and safety accreditation.
 
Alex

Alex

Well-known member
Lets put it this way: Its like drving over the same bridge for 20 years and the council suddently removes the bridge without putting any signs up and instead posting something on a website somewhere. They will be scratching thier heads wondering why so many people drove into the river on a foggy day, are those drivers at fault for not checking the bridge is there each time?

As I said on the other thread I check but I am not everyone and regarless of the caver its the rescue people who have to pay the price due to needless call outs. There should also be a note on the pit too but thats another topic.
 
F

Fulk

Well-known member
Maybe they should put a notice up at GG saying 'This is a bloody great hole, watch your step, you might fall down it'.

And, of course, at every motorway junction they should put up a notice saying 'This is a motorway, people drive fast, some drive like lunatics; watch out.'
 
langcliffe

langcliffe

Well-known member
Alex said:
its the rescue people who have to pay the price due to needless call outs. There should also be a note on the pit too but thats another topic.
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Kind of you as it is to look after their interests, may I suggest that the accredited officers of the Cave Rescue Organisation will make their own representations if they think it necessary?
 
droid

droid

Active member
Bit of a non-event.

Can't recall a pull-through I've done that we haven't nipped in and stuck a ladder down before setting off up the hill....
 
graham

graham

New member
Alex said:
Lets put it this way: Its like drving over the same bridge for 20 years and the council suddently removes the bridge without putting any signs up and instead posting something on a website somewhere. They will be scratching thier heads wondering why so many people drove into the river on a foggy day, are those drivers at fault for not checking the bridge is there each time?
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Yes those drivers would be at bloody fault, just as they would be if they drove into the back of an artic that wasn't there last time they went that way.

Alex said:
As I said on the other thread I check but I am not everyone and regarless of the caver its the rescue people who have to pay the price due to needless call outs. There should also be a note on the pit too but thats another topic.
Click to expand...

As to this one, I agree with langcliffe.
 
G

Geoff R

New member
Personally speaking we ALWAYS rig this exit.

Its far too embarrassing to be stuck for the sake of just 15 minutes  ::) 
 
Gollum

Gollum

Member
I know what you mean Alex. We have a system in derbyshire which in 20 odd years of caving I have all ways known a rope on idiots leap and so never put a rope in for it unless i am working with a group. It wouldn't be a rescue situation if we got there to find it missing but it would certainly be a surprise.
 
Alex

Alex

Well-known member
So you lot would see someone potentially die for a mistake they made just because you could not stand see a small notice spoiling your view of a bit of a dull wall in the cave?

Come on thats a pretty shit reason, and well Graham and Lancliff a rather selfish and heartless view in my opinion.

P.s. as I said I always rig it too but when I hear of my friends potentially getting into trouble because of this attitude it boils my blood as its so easily corrected.


 
Cave_Troll

Cave_Troll

Active member
personally i've never known it have a rope on it that i'd not put there.

why anyone would try to do a through trip on the assumption that there would be a rope to let me out puzzles me
 
Alex

Alex

Well-known member
People do though... Yes I know they are rather silly for not checking I am not disputing that but its amazing how many people don't check when I decided to ask a few other cavers after I found out about this trip. A simple 3 by 3 sign inch in a few places would remind them and solve any further potential problems and we can keep it clear of tatty and potentially dangerous rope at the same time.
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Sorry but I must disagree with that bridge analogy. Removing the rope from the Roof Tunnel pitch restores the cave to its natural condition. There is nothing natural about a road or a bridge; that's a completely different situation. A driver would reasonably expect a bridge to be in situ; a caver should reasonably expect a pitch not to be rigged as the normal situation.

If I was unable to get up that short pitch by free climbing (which I can do but I fully understand why some cavers wouldn't want to) I would not dream of doing a pull through from upstairs, just relying on the existence of some tat which may or may not be there. If I needed a rope or a ladder to get up that pitch I'd nip in and rig it first without thinking twice about it.

Absence of rope (other than one you rig yourself) is probably safer than a piece of cast off tat (of dubious vintage) anyway.
 
martinm

martinm

New member
Gollum said:
I know what you mean Alex. We have a system in derbyshire which in 20 odd years of caving I have all ways known a rope on idiots leap and so never put a rope in for it unless i am working with a group. It wouldn't be a rescue situation if we got there to find it missing but it would certainly be a surprise.
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You don't need a rope for Idiot's Leap, you can easily traverse over it in either direction. If u r with novices u will already have ropes for the rest of the cave you could use anyway wouldn't you?  :confused:
 
martinm

martinm

New member
Alex said:
P.s. as I said I always rig it too but when I hear of my friends potentially getting into trouble because of this attitude it boils my blood as its so easily corrected.
Click to expand...

It IS easily corrected... by educating your friends to check & if necessary rig the pitch!
:confused:

Reminds me of something I think called 'The Derbyshire Rope Trick' many years ago though can't rmbr exactly whether that was the same thing or not. Sure it was peeps descending one cave, pulling their ropes down, but not having checked a lower entrance where they were supposed to be exiting to see whether it was rigged or not....  :thumbsdown: Idiots!
 
H

Hammy

Member
langcliffe said:
Alex said:
please PLEASE put a notice up ASAP at the ent to vally and the first bolt in Simpsons/Swinsto saying that the rope has been removed before a rescue situation is created or worse still someone dies as they have no escape when the cave is flooding.
Click to expand...

Please, CNCC, don't litter Valley Entrance, Swinsto, Simpson's, and Rowten with unnecessary notices just to pander to people who make silly assumptions. It is supposed to be a cave system, not a council-run adventure playground with full health and safety accreditation.
Click to expand...

Wasn't it the CNCC who  littered the countryside with unnecessary notices for many years just to pander to people who make silly assumptions advising that the ladders in Fall Pot and Stake Pot in Easegill had been removed?
 
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