lancaster h
- Thread starter todcaver
- Start date
Alex
Well-known member
locked LOCKED!?? Tis is Yorkshire/Lancashire/Cumbria, we don't lock caves (Though to be fair 50 years ago, it was!). Unfortunately at the moment for official access you need to be a member of a club and send a club letter headed e-mail/letter. Details of which is in the link provided by Spike.
The new top to Lancaster looks great but I find it impossible to rig without rope rub.
Rope protectors have been provided but I will take my own thicker ones next time as the provided ones are a bit tricky to keep on the ropes. A couple of eye bolts similar to those on Magnetometer would help! or even a bit of scaffolding pole across the top?
Rope protectors have been provided but I will take my own thicker ones next time as the provided ones are a bit tricky to keep on the ropes. A couple of eye bolts similar to those on Magnetometer would help! or even a bit of scaffolding pole across the top?
Simon Wilson
New member
Somebody tried it. I don't think it lasted more than a few hours.Alex said:
It's on Access Land FFS. You have a right in law to enter caves on access land. According to Defra you can enter caves but there might be limit to how far you can go and that might have something to do with the extent of daylight but they won't say for certain where any limit might be so that is an invitation to ignore it. Just go down Lancaster Hole, there are no permit police and nobody will bat an eyelid.
Alex
Well-known member
I agree there, I found the best way is to use the two anchors on the left rock so you have a backup and then go down that side so I only have to use the one rope protector and not have to rig a really shallow Y-hang. With only one side the rope tends to stay in the protector and is still backed up to the second anchor on the rock (though it is the same rock). There might be two anchors on the other rock too, I can't remember.
Alex
Well-known member
I never noticed it moving before, I don't think me or my mates are fat enough to counter weight that boulder anyway, besides is it not too big to fit down the hole? So even if we did put on an extra few thousand pounds/fell on the rope all you would end up doing is making a rock plug lol.
You can climb out and in (while still attached) avoiding most of the rub, as rubbing only matters when the rope is weighted, though it is a larger step down due to the raised ring. I wonder if the best long term solution is to shave that upper above ground section off, that would solve both issues.
Regardless considering some anchor placements I have seen in lesser visited caves, the problems here are very minor in comparison, so don't worry about it too much Tod.
Simon Wilson
New member
But the message you're giving is incorrect. It is 'officially' Access Land. The CNCC advice is unofficial.Alex said:
I expect that might have been a while ago.
Pitlamp
Well-known member
"official"? "unofficial"? You're got me really confused now Simon.
As things stand caving access and CRoW aren't the same are they? I thought the gist of the BCA vote was that it was instructed to pursue clarification of the meaning of the current legislation. That's ongoing - but I don't think it's actually been achieved yet has it?
There seems to be lots of misinformation circulating. I just checked the CNCC website and it indicates that permits are freely available to any BCA member club. Surely all todcaver and his mates need to do is gang together as a club, join BCA - and away they go.
The detail is here: http://www.cncc.org.uk/access/details.php?id=184
I believe there are some cavers who think that someone needs to be taken to court as a test case. If you are advising people to ignore access agreements which are the result of negotiations between land owners and the caving community, you should perhaps give the full story. (I accept that you may not be - just saying.)
Also it would perhaps be useful if you could make it clear whether you are speaking for CNCC or just giving your own opinion. (I confess don't know if you are an officer or not Simon.)
As things stand caving access and CRoW aren't the same are they? I thought the gist of the BCA vote was that it was instructed to pursue clarification of the meaning of the current legislation. That's ongoing - but I don't think it's actually been achieved yet has it?
There seems to be lots of misinformation circulating. I just checked the CNCC website and it indicates that permits are freely available to any BCA member club. Surely all todcaver and his mates need to do is gang together as a club, join BCA - and away they go.
The detail is here: http://www.cncc.org.uk/access/details.php?id=184
I believe there are some cavers who think that someone needs to be taken to court as a test case. If you are advising people to ignore access agreements which are the result of negotiations between land owners and the caving community, you should perhaps give the full story. (I accept that you may not be - just saying.)
Also it would perhaps be useful if you could make it clear whether you are speaking for CNCC or just giving your own opinion. (I confess don't know if you are an officer or not Simon.)
cap n chris
Well-known member
Simon Wilson said:
http://www.cncc.org.uk/access/details.php?id=184
says...
Clarification would be very useful. I'd like to visit LH soon.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Alex said:
In a computerised world isn't this risible and overdue for review*? Anyone can scan or photograph any club letterhead in the entire world and submit it as part of an email. Far better would be for BCA membership to be an online database so ANY paid-up bona fide caver can be instantly and easily cross-referred**; if they are a recognised caver, the permit should be issued.
* Rhetorical, and taken as read.
** One suspects BCA executive would be paralysed with fear at the prospect of this, though. HSE does it for outdoor centres.
jasonbirder
Member
I'm sure its a debate for another post...but in the 21st Century...what on earth is the justification for being part of a Club rather than simply a BCA member being a requirement for access?
