BCA Council Meetings.

Madness

New member
If a motion is proposed at a BCA Council meeting, who is allowed to vote on it? Just Council members or all BCA members present?

Can anyone put a motion forward?


 

BCA Chair

Member
Madness said:
If a motion is proposed at a BCA Council meeting, who is allowed to vote on it? Just Council members or all BCA members present?
Voting members of Council ... i.e. people who are elected to a BCA position or people who attend as representatives of a Regional Council or Constituent Body.

Madness said:
Can anyone put a motion forward?
Sort of. I guess it depends on what you term a "motion". If you mean making formal proposals, then no. If you mean asking questions, then - officially - there is nothing to say they can and nothing to say they can't. In practice, though, BCA is open and Council has always sought to respond to members.
 

PeteHall

Moderator
There seems a contradiction here :unsure:

Over on the other thread, you said:
BCA Secretary said:
bazdog said:
How do we vote in this assuming an individual member can't make it to the AGM?
If you want to vote at an AGM, then you need to attend in person (and bring your membership card).

However your query relates to a potential Constitutional Change. Assuming any potential change is first approved by an AGM, it must then be approved by postal vote of members, so that would be your opportunity.
So any member with a membership card, who is in attendance can vote.

But here you say:
BCA Secretary said:
Madness said:
If a motion is proposed at a BCA Council meeting, who is allowed to vote on it? Just Council members or all BCA members present?
Voting members of Council ... i.e. people who are elected to a BCA position or people who attend as representatives of a Regional Council or Constituent Body.
This suggests only representatives of constituent bodies, or regional caving bodies can vote.

Could you explain as I really can't work it out.
 

andrewmcleod

Well-known member
I think (but could be wrong) that the confusion here is that BCA Council meetings are not the same as BCA General Meetings?
 

cavermark

New member
Aubrey said:
If you read the BCA constitution you will find out how it works !!!!!!!!!

Exactly the sort of unhelpful attitude that puts many people off getting involved with committees.
 

Bob Mehew

Well-known member
Simple once you read the fine print.  The first was talking about an AGM (scheduled for 5 June on Mendip) where as the second was talking about a Council meeting (scheduled for 9 April at the Red Lion pub in Alvechurch, B48 7LG).  The AGM (as does a Special or Extraordinary General Meeting) has a two house voting system where by in one house is all the individual members (both Direct & Club) whilst the other house consists of clubs and other bodies; so any vote in favour of a motion must gain a majority in both houses.  Whereas at Council it is only the elected officers and specified delegates who hold a vote, but by tradition any member may attend and speak (subject to the consent of the Chair).  Hierarchy wise the Council of Officers reports to the General Meetings of members.  You probably don't want to read http://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/doku.php?id=about:documents:bca_constitution.
 

PeteHall

Moderator
Aubrey said:
If you read the BCA constitution you will find out how it works !!!!!!!!!
The BCA constitution is very long winded and requires reading many times to fully understand exactly what point it is trying to make.

Sine the BCA secretary has offered simplified advice on this forum for the benefit of those of us with neither the time nor inclination to read the entire constitution several times, I think it is fair to ask the BCA secreteary for clarification of what appears to be conflicting information.
cavermark said:
Aubrey said:
If you read the BCA constitution you will find out how it works !!!!!!!!!

Exactly the sort of unhelpful attitude that puts many people off getting involved with committees.

Quite.

Bob, thank you for clarification, that makes sense in plain English and as you say, I probably don't want to read the constitution (again!)

 

cavermark

New member
I was just looking for a link to the constitution and contemplating a read since it's topical, but thankyou Bob for the clear explanation to the specific question posted.  (y)
 

Jenny P

Active member
Jason, the same system applies at Orpheus General and Committee meetings, as you'd know, being a member of OCC.

So, normally a Committee meeting is for Committee members who may vote and who act on behalf of the Club who elected them at an AGM. Other members could, with the permission of the Chairman turn up and speak at a Committee meeting but couldn't vote.

A General Meeting is where ALL paid up club members may turn up and have their say and vote on proposals put and also, at an AGM, elect those officers and committee members who they wish to act on their behalf and speak on their behalf at Committee meetings.

I suppose a democracy is where everyone has a say and a vote at every meeting.  In practice a bit unwieldy when you are speaking of several hundred people and pretty hopeless once you get beyond a thousand or so.  Hence the idea of "representatives" who are elected to speak and vote on your behalf - but it does mean you have to get off your butt and elect them and keep an eye on them to make sure they don't go off message.
 
Whilst I was obviously being somewhat facetious - its important to emphasise that BCA members AREN'T allowed to vote.
So its ALL the MORE. IMPORTANT that our representatives follow the express and unequivocal decision of the membership - which is pro-access and pro-CRoW
Its not in favour of further discussion or debate or compromise or halfway house solutions - it wants the BCA to get official confirmation that Caving is NOT a prohibited activity on CRoW land.
Regardless of constitutional complexities and beauracratic niceties...any committee member that explicitly or implicitly tries to undermine that must surely find their position untenable
 

Peter Burgess

New member
Do you know what a representative represents? On one occasion that I was charged with being a rep for my club I canvassed for the opinion of our members and got a 50/50 response for/against a particular matter. I therefore abstained on the matter. The relevant vote for which I had been entrusted to express a view of the club went "for". That doesn't therefore mean that after that I should always vote "for" if the same matter or a related matter came up again. I would continue to express the views of my club, either by asking again or by using the original mandate. How I represent my club if asked to do so again is ENTIRELY the business of my club and its members, and nobody else's.
 

droid

Active member
Pointing out potential difficulties that are best discussed before the act isn't 'undermining' whatever you might think, Jason.
 

cavemanmike

Active member
Peter Burgess said:
Do you know what a representative represents? On one occasion that I was charged with being a rep for my club I canvassed for the opinion of our members and got a 50/50 response for/against a particular matter. I therefore abstained on the matter. The relevant vote for which I had been entrusted to express a view of the club went "for". That doesn't therefore mean that after that I should always vote "for" if the same matter or a related matter came up again. I would continue to express the views of my club, either by asking again or by using the original mandate. How I represent my club if asked to do so again is ENTIRELY the business of my club and its members, and nobody else's.

but this is not a 50/50 split and nobody is asking you how you should or would represent YOUR club and it's members
 

Peter Burgess

New member
I would also point out that even if reps represent regional councils or other similar bodies rather than clubs, the same principle applies. However the body chooses to discover the views of its members, that view is what governs the opinion expressed at the higher body, and not what the higher body may or may not have decided in the past.
 

PeteHall

Moderator
Peter Burgess said:
Do you know what a representative represents? On one occasion that I was charged with being a rep for my club I canvassed for the opinion of our members and got a 50/50 response for/against a particular matter. I therefore abstained on the matter. The relevant vote for which I had been entrusted to express a view of the club went "for". That doesn't therefore mean that after that I should always vote "for" if the same matter or a related matter came up again. I would continue to express the views of my club, either by asking again or by using the original mandate. How I represent my club if asked to do so again is ENTIRELY the business of my club and its members, and nobody else's.

For once I completely agree with you Peter!

As you say, it is important that club/ council reps canvass the opinion of the members they represent and vote accordingly.
 

Peter Burgess

New member
cavemanmike said:
Peter Burgess said:
Do you know what a representative represents? On one occasion that I was charged with being a rep for my club I canvassed for the opinion of our members and got a 50/50 response for/against a particular matter. I therefore abstained on the matter. The relevant vote for which I had been entrusted to express a view of the club went "for". That doesn't therefore mean that after that I should always vote "for" if the same matter or a related matter came up again. I would continue to express the views of my club, either by asking again or by using the original mandate. How I represent my club if asked to do so again is ENTIRELY the business of my club and its members, and nobody else's.
but this is not a 50/50 split and nobody is asking you how you should or would represent YOUR club and it's members
Please understand what I just posted. The BCA ballot was a BCA vote, and was not to discover the views of each member body. If a rep is asked to express another similar view they should continue to vote according to the view of the regional body or whatever.
 
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