Caving First Aid kit: what to take
- Thread starter tdobson
- Start date
Oscar D
Active member
Small roll of duct tape has many applications, from making splints to holding dressings in place.
I wouldn?t bother so much with plasters or other small dressings, underground first aid just needs to keep the casualty alive until you can reach the surface, plasters won?t do a lot and will most likely fall off and be a waste of time and space.
A SAM splint or similar is useful and compact, as well as the vacuum sealed ?Israeli? bandages. These act like a big blood sponge to slow heavy bleeding and are quite cave proof. Disclaimer, I say all this without any first aid quals or training, it?s just my opinion
I wouldn?t bother so much with plasters or other small dressings, underground first aid just needs to keep the casualty alive until you can reach the surface, plasters won?t do a lot and will most likely fall off and be a waste of time and space.
A SAM splint or similar is useful and compact, as well as the vacuum sealed ?Israeli? bandages. These act like a big blood sponge to slow heavy bleeding and are quite cave proof. Disclaimer, I say all this without any first aid quals or training, it?s just my opinion
Wayland Smith
Active member
Big safety pins. You can pin up clothing to imobilize limbs or pin a big cut!
As above, get your casualty out alive, and as clean as reasonably possible.
Sort everything out later.
As above, get your casualty out alive, and as clean as reasonably possible.
Sort everything out later.
It depends where you are, where you?re going, who you?re with, what you?re happy using and what you are happy carrying. It?s always a massive compromise. I suspect no-one can give you a definitive list that works for you in all circumstances.
My first aid kit varies depending on trip, digging, whether I am on expedition, which country (climate), etc
In this country it is usually pretty minimal - something to keep warm, something for pain, something to stop bleeding, something to clean eyes and ideally be able to jury rig a splint. This fits in a *tiny* waterproof box.
eg it may be as simple as a balaclava, ibuprofen and electrical tape, sterile saline pod for eyes.
It may be a lot of serious drugs, bothy, etc....
But it needs to be packable and always available.... and it will vary... so I have a small kit for digging, tourist trips etc
My first aid kit varies depending on trip, digging, whether I am on expedition, which country (climate), etc
In this country it is usually pretty minimal - something to keep warm, something for pain, something to stop bleeding, something to clean eyes and ideally be able to jury rig a splint. This fits in a *tiny* waterproof box.
eg it may be as simple as a balaclava, ibuprofen and electrical tape, sterile saline pod for eyes.
It may be a lot of serious drugs, bothy, etc....
But it needs to be packable and always available.... and it will vary... so I have a small kit for digging, tourist trips etc
Tseralo
Active member
Wayland Smith said:
Kilt pins work great for that.
I also have a blizzard blanket that will keep someone a lot warmer than the stanadrad tinfoil bag. The blanket is a lot easier to get around and under someone than trying to get them into a bag and can be closed up.
Wayland Smith
Active member
It is useful if a survival blanket, bivvy bag or whatever is big enough for two in any real wait it out situation.
I keep frightening the kids with my wound stapler. One day.
I used to carry Tramadol for when you hurt yourself, but the last lot is out of date now. Much less likely to cause customs problems and more idiot proof. In many countries they will sell it to you over the counter if you look reasonably professional. This even includes countries with the death penalty for unauthorised opoids and cough mixtures. And you can fill your boots with antibiotics while you are there, which does give you some idea where the real problem is.
I used to carry Tramadol for when you hurt yourself, but the last lot is out of date now. Much less likely to cause customs problems and more idiot proof. In many countries they will sell it to you over the counter if you look reasonably professional. This even includes countries with the death penalty for unauthorised opoids and cough mixtures. And you can fill your boots with antibiotics while you are there, which does give you some idea where the real problem is.
Oscar D
Active member
Tseralo said:
Another vote for the Blizzard blanket. You can even get one which is a sort of poncho so you can remain mobile if the situation permits. They may be a bit on the pricey and bulky side, but a tiny tin foil blanket you can fit inside your lid won?t be near as warm or durable.
Brains
Well-known member
The tin foil space blanket things are only any good in space or as wrapping paper. Big orange bivvy bag for one, or bothy shelter or the other options already mentioned are the way to go.
Tablets etc are generally no good as first aid in a cave - the cool environment and body shut down with hypothermia means digesting / absorbing them is highly unlikely. Under the tongue medications like a GTN spray for angina should only be self administered
Pins and staples will no doubt work very well, but a good roll of duct tape will stick when wet or dry to just about anything so IMO better for skin gashes, torn clothes and slings, and wont tear out if pulled.
Tablets etc are generally no good as first aid in a cave - the cool environment and body shut down with hypothermia means digesting / absorbing them is highly unlikely. Under the tongue medications like a GTN spray for angina should only be self administered
Pins and staples will no doubt work very well, but a good roll of duct tape will stick when wet or dry to just about anything so IMO better for skin gashes, torn clothes and slings, and wont tear out if pulled.
Mike Hopley
New member
Brains said:
Worth bearing in mind that the vast majority of hypothermia is "mild", at which point the digestive system should be working okay. If you have a profoundly hypothermic patient, then yes, they need to be handled delicately and I expect giving pills is a bad idea.
Drugs are very useful to have underground. Pain killers can help get people out under their own steam. And when you need it, you'll be glad of Loperamide (Immodium) -- along with a bin bag and Just Enough bog roll!
A sachet of rehydration powder (Dioralyte) can make a huge difference. The transformative effect on severely dehydrated cavers has to be seen to be believed.
Tseralo
Active member
I think people are mixing up the useage of a group shelter and blizard bag/space blanket.
If you have an imobile casulaty which is worst-case scenario you need to keep the insulated and warm untill rescue comes but you also need to keep yourself warm. The general advice ive allways received is to get them off the ground with ropes and bags etc under them and into a blizard bag/space blanket, this will slow down their heat lost. This dosent do anything for you and paticulary with a cave rescue you may be waiting some time. If your going to places that will be a long wait taking a group shelter as well and putting over all of you will keep you a lot warmer.
Personally I pack the club one when we do trips like titan and surveying not so much for rescue but they make waiting at the bottom of a cold wet pitch much more pleasant.
If you have an imobile casulaty which is worst-case scenario you need to keep the insulated and warm untill rescue comes but you also need to keep yourself warm. The general advice ive allways received is to get them off the ground with ropes and bags etc under them and into a blizard bag/space blanket, this will slow down their heat lost. This dosent do anything for you and paticulary with a cave rescue you may be waiting some time. If your going to places that will be a long wait taking a group shelter as well and putting over all of you will keep you a lot warmer.
Personally I pack the club one when we do trips like titan and surveying not so much for rescue but they make waiting at the bottom of a cold wet pitch much more pleasant.
nearlywhite
Active member
Mike Hopley said:
I had a look and they're doesn't appear to be good evidence for obstruction or delayed overdose in the literature so probably best people who aren't extensively trained worry about whether they are getting the medication.
Mike Hopley said:
the Dioralyte is really good for cramping. The other electrolytes take quite a while to percolate through and alleviate confusion etc. A deficit of water on the other hand is really common and that is the thing that makes the dramatic quick difference rather than the salts. So if don't wait for the salts if someone is dehydrated!
JasonC
Well-known member
I'm sure you could do worse than this as a starting point:
http://www.rrcpc.org.uk/newsletters/NL_V50_N1_A12.htm
http://www.rrcpc.org.uk/newsletters/NL_V50_N1_A12.htm
Subpopulus Hibernia
Active member
Just opened up my mini-first aid kit for a look. I keep everything in a small nalgene bottle. I used to have an even smaller nalgene bottle but it was a bit too minimal (no room for duct tape) and the opening was so small I had to include a tweezers to pull the bits out of it.
- Tweezers not strictly necessary, but this dates from the first iteration where the opening was so small that the tweezers were required to pull the bits out of it. Useful for cleaning out wounds or maybe getting grit out of an eye where a muddy finger wouldn't be much help.
- Hydrocolid sticking plasters - maybe not the best for the cave environment (a bit fiddly), but generally I find the adhesive very strong and waterproof, provided you can dry the area around the wound.
- Two Solpadine tablets
- A few alcohol wipes
- Sterile solution - washing out a gritty eye or general wound cleaning.
- Small tube of Savlon
- Largish bandage
- Smallish bandage
- A few steri-strips
- Duct tape (or a roll of black electrical tape which I've heard some people works better)
- Outside is a large scrap of neoprene (an old wetsock in this case). Rich Hudson recomended I use this as you can put on a bandage and then protect/pad it with the neoprene, which can be duct-taped in place.
- A few snoopy loops to hold the neoprene on, but always handy to have.
Reading over this thread I'll probably add the safety pins and perhaps an energy gel. I've a nice bit of room in there.
I did get to use the original smaller version of this kit before when a large rock collapse left me with a big gash on my chin. On that occasion I found it was a bit too small and fiddly to be of great use, though far better than nothing. Hence the larger green one.
- Tweezers not strictly necessary, but this dates from the first iteration where the opening was so small that the tweezers were required to pull the bits out of it. Useful for cleaning out wounds or maybe getting grit out of an eye where a muddy finger wouldn't be much help.
- Hydrocolid sticking plasters - maybe not the best for the cave environment (a bit fiddly), but generally I find the adhesive very strong and waterproof, provided you can dry the area around the wound.
- Two Solpadine tablets
- A few alcohol wipes
- Sterile solution - washing out a gritty eye or general wound cleaning.
- Small tube of Savlon
- Largish bandage
- Smallish bandage
- A few steri-strips
- Duct tape (or a roll of black electrical tape which I've heard some people works better)
- Outside is a large scrap of neoprene (an old wetsock in this case). Rich Hudson recomended I use this as you can put on a bandage and then protect/pad it with the neoprene, which can be duct-taped in place.
- A few snoopy loops to hold the neoprene on, but always handy to have.
Reading over this thread I'll probably add the safety pins and perhaps an energy gel. I've a nice bit of room in there.
I did get to use the original smaller version of this kit before when a large rock collapse left me with a big gash on my chin. On that occasion I found it was a bit too small and fiddly to be of great use, though far better than nothing. Hence the larger green one.
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Subpopulus Hibernia
Active member
ZombieCake
Well-known member
I've started packing the 20ml sterile saline pods as well as steristrips. Bivvi bag (do they still make the compact 250 gauge ones you could get from the likes of Caving Supplies?), space blanket, and gaffer tape (duct tape spelt differently), plasters, painkillers, and maybe a couple of wipes.
