Access - what is best practice

Badlad

Administrator
Staff member
I was recently asked to give an example of a cave access system which demonstrates best practice.

What is best practice?

Quick and easy to gain permission? Non restrictive to types of cavers? Management of conservation and public safety? What else?

Who does it best?
 

Goydenman

Well-known member
Ones where cavers have built relationship with the farmers/land owners and enabled all year round access for all other cavers. Only restrictions being to shut any gates into fields and be sensible parking ?????????????
 

bograt

Active member
I would go for one where all the negotiation and preparation has been done before hand, Landowner happy, Access Body happy, any Regional Bodies happy, the caver just has to turn up at the cave and go down --?

All the caver has to do is remember to take an adjustable spanner and BE SENSIBLE!!

Sound familiar anyone?----
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
I reckon it might be impossible to define. Best practice from what viewpoint might be a good starter. Best practice from the general body of cavers' viewpoint would be access where it's free, easy, non-bureaucratic, parking/changing facilities etc.. Best practice from a conservation point of view would be at the other end of the spectrum.
 

bograt

Active member
Good point Cap'n

Context is all important, so is region from the point of view of attitude.  (y)
 

Badlad

Administrator
Staff member
Sorry I'll narrow it down a bit.

The question was aimed at what cavers think of as best practice.  Let's assume that there is harmony between the Landowners, Cavers and the Access Controlling Body on this one.

I agree that the Derbyshire key arrangements are excellent, but I was thinking more of controlled access systems that are run by a group, council, club, or association.  I believe there are between 20-30 Access Controlling Bodies in the UK - Which are good examples of best practice, especially with regard to how cavers in general perceive them?
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
Thank you - makes responding FAR easier!

I'm biassed, but regionally (SW) I think the ACBs that do a good job, both for cavers and conservationally for the cave(s), are: BEC/St. Cuthberts Swallet, MCG/Upper Flood Swallet, FCQMC/Fairy Quarry Caves, CCC/Longwood, Charterhouse, Rhino, GB Cavern. There are others. In terms of caver-friendliness, though, the easiest ACB/goodwill arrangement is probably Swildon's Hole, where a token gesture of a solitary pound gets you across private land to gain entry into 10km of passage.
 

Fulk

Well-known member
How about free and unfettered access to the caves of East Kingsdale as a good case in point; you just roll up and go caving.
 

bograt

Active member
Fulk said:
How about free and unfettered access to the caves of East Kingsdale as a good case in point; you just roll up and go caving.

Sounds wonderful, doe's it really happen?--
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Here's an unusual example from my own experience (which I think I've mentioned before on this forum but which is germane in this topic). Many years ago I was fairly active for a while on Mendip. I was in the Wessex one day and mentioned how it'd be good to have a trip in Reservoir Hole. This was met with disdainful guffaws from the large group of Wessex members in the hut at the time.

They said I'd got no chance - the only way in would be to persuade Willie Stanton to let us have a key. Even local cavers had been repulsed (they said) so I might as well forget it.

I didn't know Willie Stanton and he didn't know me. But I wrote to him (as it said in published access information) and got a lovely letter back immediately which could not have been more helpful. On the agreed date we went to his house to collect the key and he gave us loads of useful information. We had a great trip and when we returned the key that evening we had a long and enjoyable conversation about the cave. He was a fascinating bloke to chat with.

Badlad's post above mentioned how cavers "perceive" access arrangements. The above is perhaps a good example of how incorrect perceptions can (paradoxically) be a good thing. Reservoir Hole at the time received very little traffic (good for conservation) because only those who really wanted to see it would make the effort of writing a simple letter.

I wouldn't necessarily give too much weight to how cavers "perceive" access arrangements as this isn't always a good indicator of the real situation. There are more important aspects to focus on.
 

Simon Wilson

New member
bograt said:
Good point Cap'n

Context is all important, so is region from the point of view of attitude.  (y)

(y) Spot on Bograt.

There is a massive North/South divide in mindset. In the northern region it goes back to the Lancaster Hole incident which set a red line on gating.

I can't explain the attitude down south but it's obviously very different.
 

ah147

New member
Holme Bank is owned by a commercial business.

First time you want access, turn up during office hours and fill out an indemnity form (only necessary for the person booking out the key).

After that? Ring up, key will be left in an accessible place. More notice is good but he'll move heaven and earth to try and get you in sometimes!

He's even dropped off his personal key at my house when I booked late one evening and he was driving past.

Small donation to charity for access too, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

If you want to get in when another group is in, he puts you in contact with each other to make arrangements.

I can't think of a better way to administer access to a gated site.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Peter Burgess

New member
There is no "best practice". It's all a matter of individual preference. No one system is going to be necessarily better or worse than another. Unofficial unwritten access agreements might be good in that they don't require any formalities, but might be bad in that they can be withdrawn at any time without notice. A leader only system might be good in that the cave is really special and superbly preserved and you get special treatment from the leader, but might be bad in that access is limited. It's not a question that can possibly be answered with any confidence. So why are you asking?
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
Simon Wilson said:
I can't explain the attitude down south but it's obviously very different.

I'll have a go!....

Mendip is tiny - only about 160sq km - and it is within a half hour drive of the cities of Bath, Bristol and even less time for the residents of Wells, Glastonbury, Shepton Mallet and Weston-super-Mare, plus the villages on the flanks. It is a weekend playground for a combined diaspora in excess of 650,000.

The caves are not extensive nor too numerous and most are in different private ownership or on nature reserves administered by various organisations, there are no long walks to reach any of them.

Combine the above with a strong conservation ethos and it is easier (I hope) to see why some are gated and locked; many are not.

Prior to the interwebnet it was a tad of a palaver to gain access; nowadays it is FAR easier.
 
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you Cap'nChris as you talk alot of sense...

But I suspect the catchment area of Sheffield, Derby and Manchester surrounding the Peaks is significantly larger than that around the Mendips...and it is nearly all within a National Park and yet there is more of an open and easy access philosophy there...
 

caving_fox

Active member
bograt said:
Fulk said:
How about free and unfettered access to the caves of East Kingsdale as a good case in point; you just roll up and go caving.

Sounds wonderful, doe's it really happen?--

Absolutely!
The only downside is that most of the caves are fairly simple (ish) SRT to the sump and back.

As a caver: the best practise for me is somewhere like Kingsdale/Swildons where I can just turn up when I feel like it, and go caving. The more caves like this there are, then the less likely it is that I'll be stuck in a queue because it's the only one easily 'open' in the area.

2nd would be places like OFD/CCC controlled where it's simple and open to obtain the key. More or less turn up on the day with a club and ask.

Anything that involves emailing/writing beforehand, let alone receiving a key in the post, is distinctly a 3rd option, but better than secretive if you know the right person type solutions.

As a conservationist, which I'm not but I like pretties as much as anyone else, then obviously some equitable scheme of reducing access to 'manageable' numbers is understandable, hence I've no real complaints about permit/keys.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Simon Wilson said:
bograt said:
Good point Cap'n

Context is all important, so is region from the point of view of attitude.  (y)

(y) Spot on Bograt.

There is a massive North/South divide in mindset. In the northern region it goes back to the Lancaster Hole incident which set a red line on gating.

I can't explain the attitude down south but it's obviously very different.

Yes - Bograt has an excellent point there. And yes, the Mendip scene is quite different from up here in the Dales.

That Lancaster Hole "incident" was more of an "extended period" - and is a fascinating aspect of British caving's history. I knew the late George Cornes very well and his tales of that era were both hilarious and thought provoking.
 
Top