Caravans at Pin Dale

pwhole

pwhole

Well-known member
There's also presumably an issue with the SSSI status of Pindale Scrins, and the extant (and still open) workings at Pindale End Mine and others thereabouts, all of which have important heritage value...
 
kay

kay

Well-known member
pwhole said:
There's also presumably an issue with the SSSI status of Pindale Scrins, and the extant (and still open) workings at Pindale End Mine and others thereabouts, all of which have important heritage value...
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If so, then it would be worth bringing this to the attention of Natural England - if you look up the SSSI on the Natural England site it will give you a contact name. I recently contacted NE about a local SSSI which was being considered for housing, and they were very helpful. Oh, and assuming it's a geological SSI, contact your local Geological Association too.
 
Moose

Moose

New member
I hope they have factored in the meshing work required on all the terraces above the floor of the quarry!
 
pwhole

pwhole

Well-known member
I've had a quick look through some of the proposals and I have to say it doesn't seem very practical from any angle - quite literally. The road access is terrible, and the corners (towing caravans) are almost impossible, especially the bend at Black Rabbit. Also the permission seems to extend partway down the road toward the farm, meaning ascertaining the legal boundary could be a bit awkward. And it's damn close to some very rare mine workings. I can't see any practical access from the Castleton end, meaning all traffic would come via Hope, with quarry traffic. I wonder what Alan M thinks/knows? Might ask him.

Apart from anything else, who wants to caravan in a quarry? 'Hell of a view, Mabel!'

Unless of course I'm completely misunderstanding the proposal and the 'caravanners' will actually be 'non-travelling travellers'?
 
AR

AR

Well-known member
Alan Medhurst has already put in an objection, primarily on traffic grounds, and Natural England have been informed as this falls within the Pindale SSSI. The proposal doesn't cover any of the Pindale Scrins scheduled ancient monument but English Heritage may take an interest given the proposal is close to both this and the prehistoric enclosure (also scheduled) further up the hill.
 
bograt

bograt

Active member
It would help our case a lot if some of you with more specialised knowledge of the site would put in an objection directly to the planners based upon that knowledge, e-mail address is in the link.
 
J

Jenny P

Active member
DCA is aware of this and we will be putting in a formal objection to the planners based on the fact that there are caves in the quarry which come within the application site, with all this implies.  We will liaise with Natural England over this as well as they will be watching the situation carefully.

Jenny Potts,
DCA Hon. Sec.
 
Rob

Rob

Well-known member
Jenny P said:
...we will be putting in a formal objection...
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Glad to see DCA are looking at this, but surely a formal objection may not be necessary.

Maybe this is me being idealist, but as long as the caves are not damaged and access is maintained, the DCA should not be against this development? I can't see anywhere in the plans stating that access will definitely be compromised, so all that needs to happen is for a formal access arrangement to be agreed?  :confused:
 
bograt

bograt

Active member
Similarly, I can't see anything in the plans to indicate that the applicants are aware of any caves in the quarry, unless they are choosing to overlook the fact?
A formal objection will raise awareness of the presence of caves in the quarry and bring to the attention of applicants and planning board that there are other interested bodies who should be considered.
 
Cave_Troll

Cave_Troll

Active member
I believe this to be the same people who own run the "Caravan park in a Quarry" in Buxton (Grinlow)
however the access roads for that site are much bigger.
 
Cave_Troll

Cave_Troll

Active member
as has been pointed out in the representations

re Pindale Caravan development
Application Number: NP/DDD/0411/0370

Your Transport Statement states

3 Vehicle access
3.1 ... Within the site, although Pindale Road is the route of a footpath and bridleway, the only vehicular use of it will be by vehicles accessing this site.


Are you not aware that the track up the quarry is open to traffic and is utilised by off road enthusiasts ?
Also the Pindale road track is used by the residents of the Houses at the bottom of the quarry.

Your assertion that nobody but the Caravaners would use the road would appear to be flawed. (mistakenly or deliberately)
 
AR

AR

Well-known member
Rob's quite right to suggest that objection may not be necessary, I would caution against objecting to any planning application unless you are certain you don't want what's proposed to happen. My advice would be to submit a comment noting the presence of caves on the site with their entrances on the quarry face and requesting that if approved, conditions are applied  to the effect that any scheme of works to make safe the quarry face does not block or otherwise remove the access points into the caves. As well as that, it would be worth reiterating that the site is within the Pindale SSSI.
 
pwhole

pwhole

Well-known member
My main concerns with the scrins are:

a) Any children playing on them could get injuries from slips and also cause serious damage to the remaining workings, particularly the pickwork, which is seriously ancient. Chipping away at them or spraypainting could ruin them forever.

b) The opencuts higher up the vein are extremely deep and would definitely cause serious injury or death to anyone who fell down them. These are not fenced off, and probably shouldn't be, given their heritage value. But their relative isolation is also their main protection, and the site will change that.

Also the shafts down by the roadside are unlocked, deep, and very important from a mining heritage perspective. Again, any commercial development right alongside these may not even be aware of their existence, though I'm sure Alan would have mentioned it. The Peak Park are aware of them though.
 
J

Jenny P

Active member
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?action=post;topic=15343.0;last_msg=200366#postmodify

Fair comment AR.  As you suggest, that may be a better way of handling this since we do want to preserve the access to the caves, whether they are within or without the boundary if the site.  As it happens they appear to be only just inside the boundary.  Of more concern is the waste disposal, i.e. sewage system to be used - I will check this on the application before writing to PDNP.  I'll also remind them of the SSSI status.

Strictly speaking, the access roads are not the concern of DCA - we should stick to points which are clearly our concern.

Jenny Potts,
DCA Hon. Sec.

 
H

Hammy

Member
pwhole said:
Apart from anything else, who wants to caravan in a quarry?
Click to expand...

Well I am a very enthusiastic caravanner, mine and quarry explorer, climber and caver.

This proposed site sounds to me like pure perfection!!
 
bograt

bograt

Active member
Hammy said:
pwhole said:
Apart from anything else, who wants to caravan in a quarry?
Click to expand...

Well I am a very enthusiastic caravanner, mine and quarry explorer, climber and caver.

This proposed site sounds to me like pure perfection!!
Click to expand...

Yeh, but would you want to dent your caravan getting to the place, then have a rock or two drop on it, then have your kid fall down an unprotected mineshaft whilst playing in the woods??

But there again, you can always put in a comment in favour of the application  :)
 
bograt

bograt

Active member
On a more serious aspect of this issue it appears that it is only the West (i.e.Castleton) side of the quarry that is designated as an "Ancient Monument" (I.E. English Heritage), however the rule of "curtulage" may come into this.
The more important point is that the whole of the site is a SSSI  (I.E.Natural England) with protection specifications laid down in law which the applicants have chosen to be ignorant of.
PDF's of the relevant documents are available on request, just PM me.

If anyone has any evidence that the applicants have contacted English Heritage or Natural England, please let me know, I can't find any in the application.
 
S

steviet_scg

Member
There is reference to correspondence with Natural England in this letter but I cannot find the report.

http://pam.peakdistrict.gov.uk/files/20445885.pdf

The ground level report is interesting

http://pam.peakdistrict.gov.uk/files/20465650.pdf

it says

Review of the 1:50,000 scale geological map (Ref. 3) did not identify any mine workings within the
boundaries of the site. Mine workings below the site may be anticipated based on the proximity of the
historic mine workings and the lead vein.

and

No evidence of solution features or underground mining was observed within the boundaries of the site.

and recommends

Additional desk study on the extent of known local underground mine workings and cave
systems within the area to determine if they extend below the site.

It also has a lot to say about the state of the quarry face and recommends remedial works which I guess might be an issue for the SSSI. I cannot see any reference to the findings of this report in any of the correspondence.
 
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