Picture this, like i am sure most of you have.

You are exploring sections of the cave away from the main system, you are not sure where they lead or even if they go anywhere? but you can't help yourself. So you find yourself in a steeply inclined extremely tight wet muddy tube, down to just your undersuit and wetsuit socks and a Mini Maglite in your mouth, it's that tight that both arms are in front of you and your chest is pushed hard against the floor with your shoulder blades rammed against the ceiling, and that tight that your head is forced to one side and your ear fills with mud and grit.........
So you have been in this squeeze for around 30 metres now and it just gets tighter, but the way on seems to widen but your not sure, and you start to ask yourself "could i turn around there if it's a dead end", but to get to that section there is the mother all squeezes, even tighter than the one you are in.

Will i fit?
If i get through, will i get back, backwards?
If i get stuck, a rescue will be impossible!

And then a controlled panic sets in, and you start to convince yourself that it will be a dead end and it's not worth the risk so you make a hasty retreat in revearse.

But then you are sat in the pub thinking "i could of done that" i will have another crack at it tomorrow.

How many times do people get into these situations on a regular basis, and at what point do you say NO the risk is to great.

Stu.

I always go pushing with someone smaller than me, that was I don't have to make the decision!

I've tied a rope to one lad's feet to make sure that I could assist him out of a tube that I couldn't even get my shoulders into!

I suppose being on Mendip helps you to find so many small tubes.

The pub and the application of a little falling down juice always makes that squeeze seem easier, or that climb less hairy.

You say it's an inclining tube. If your heading up hill it's a lot more work for your muscles than down hill, so they are bigger. Therefore you'll be bigger going up than coming back down. Therefore you gotta push uphill to the bitter end. Downhill however is a totally different matter!

Also, I dont find head first is any easier than feet first unless it's uphill ,so i'm not normally that worried about whether i'll be able to turn around or not after the squeeze.

Oh, and unless your actually stuck in squeeze part, every hole can easily be made bigger, just pray your not stuck in the line of sight of it!

the hole might seem a little bigger if you didnt have both arms infront of you. squeezes should usually be tackled with one arm dropped - makes your shoulders much narrower.

Robs right - pusing uphill - you can afford to go for it a bit since gravity will be on your side on the way out. Down hill - you've got to work out if you'll be able to reverse it uphill and backwards.

Im just thinking about Neil Moss - hell of a way to go that.

steep downhill always means feet first for me - deffo.

So come on, Stu; where was it? There's absolutely NO CHANCE that I can pirate it `cos I eat pies. Sounds pretty nervy.

You are right Sam 1 arm in front is the "Proper Way" and is my normal approach, but at a point during the accent i needed both arms in front to get some grip, the passage then got that narrow i could'nt get my arm back down by my side

I am sure you know the area Chris it's Crystal Passage just before
Sump 2 in Swildon's, spoke to J Rat today who knew of it but said that it had not been properly surveyed and was'nt sure whether anyone had made it all the way through, maybe someone has????

Stu.

Is it really possible to come out backwards from somthing that tight.??
As a newbie this is somthing i have thought about(ok worried about).
Cause i eat pies too.

I think it depends how complex the squeeze is, if it's just a case of a narrowing of the passage then you can easily revearse back through with the aid of gravity and a wiggle here and there. But some squeezes can be a little more complex such as ones that slope to one side and have differing levels of hieght, if you were reversing out blind you could easily push yourself into a much narrower part of the squeeze and as gravity is with you could quite possibily wedge yourself :shock:

I have seriousy thought about making a carboard cut out of the widest part of my body and if this fits through then surley the real thing could,
maybe ...... silly ideal ....... thought so ....... forget i mentioned it.

Stu

take a drill and some hilti caps.

Or a toffee hammer (if you are patient).

Stu.

or a copy of

The Spiritual Guide to Weight Loss (2003) DVD
by Susan Sarandon
an escential pice of caver kit

maybe a book though! :shock:

Just had to look this up (how sad is that).

I could'nt belive such a title existed ...............



Norris Chumley - Surely thats a made up name, looks like William Hague
to me.

And by the looks of him i would say that he's not about to eat that fruit.

Stu

not all rob's advice on this subject is all that good. h no of one or t okations ware your jugment was not so good and you headed a litle help to get out. although i dont no that any of those have been cos it is too tight.
but my advice is wachout if the water is flowing

a) you get cold as dose your mate bhined you waitting to have a go at tight bit.
b) if it is towared you some times it billed up infront of you (nasty or worce)and if it is away from you then it can be easy as your forced throgh and then it is hard to get back .
C) the flow will drive you to push harder than you should.

my advice is wachout if the water is flowing

a) you get cold as dose your mate bhined you waitting to have a go at tight bit.
b) if it is towared you some times it billed up infront of you (nasty or worce)and if it is away from you then it can be easy as your forced throgh and then it is hard to get back .
C) the flow will drive you to push harder than you should.

Click to expand...

Excellent description of this sort of thing in the Moldywarps description of Angel's drainpipe - scroll down to Ch 12

http://www.broomlee.demon.co.uk/memoirsall.html

A short extract from the above:

I was emerging head-first into a rift 1.2 metres high with a metre of racing water; it was like entering a water turbine. Going downstream, fast, would have been only too easy - return would have been impossible, and drowning a near-certainty. The only thing to do was to turn round; easier said than done! The crawl was too narrow, so I had to extrude myself into the rift, and turn round whilst clinging like grim death to the walls. And then came the narrow crawl back to Shelf Chamber, this time with the stream flowing fast towards me; this was not too easy either. I still acted as a plug, but this time the stream backed up in my face instead of behind my boots

Stu I'd ask Alison Moody about the passage `cos she's revisiting the whole of Swildons for the book due out this year. The Pink & Fluffy Caving Club (doing the revisiting) includes some of Mendip's dinkiest cavers so if they can't fit through it perhaps it would be wise to walk away.... mind you, perhaps they've overlooked it and you'd be the first person into something new.... still, sounds pretty nervy to me. Have you read about Neil Moss?

Chris, J Rat did mention that if anyone new Alison would, i had a look at his most up to date Swildon's survey and Crystal passage is just a dotted route which apparently means it's been partially surveyed and they have a rough ideal where it leads.

I think it may come out near the Troubles, but i can't think for the life of me where???

I have reserved a book from the "The Pink & Fluffy Club" but god know when it will be released all i know it's 2005!!

Neil Moss ???, he's not the guy who passed away recently??

Stu

The dotted lines on the survey can also mean "too tight". Bearing in mind that part of Swildon's is phreatic, it could be a solutional tube leading nowhere, branching off from the main streamway.

Neil Moss' story is a cautionary tale, based around Peak Cavern in Derbyshire (also known as The Devil's Arse); Neil is still in the hole he explored, got stuck and died in back in the 1950s (if my memory's right).

Blimey that quite horrific

Too tight hey that may explain things then, what do you know about the damp link then leads from Shatter Passage to the down stream end of Sump 5 incorporating Grit and Gloop sump, as this is also a dotted line on the survey, look pretty nasty eevn on a piece of paper.

Stu.