'Dont throw rocks' sign at Gaping Ghyll?

Speleotron

Member
I'm not a believer in putting signs up everywhere saying 'dont do this' etc, especially the countryside, but I was doing dihedral and some fool was throwing rocks down into the chamber, :mad: nearly sh@t myself. They were close-ish and would have been far too close if we had been on the ground in the chamber.  Thankfully one of our team was still at the pitch-head so he went out and told the guy off, just as he was about to lob a football sized rock down!

Would it be a good idea for there to be a sign telling people not to throw stones down?
 

Alex

Well-known member
Aye even I who am normally agianst this H&S crap would think it would be a good idea and the sign should tell them the reason ie Pot Holers below please dont kill them!
 

Speleotron

Member
Yer I think HSE is over the top and hate signs that should be common sense, but when your'e on a rope with rocks zipping past you it doesnt seem euch a bad idea.
 

khakipuce

New member
Speleotron said:
Yer I think HSE is over the top and hate signs that should be common sense, but when your'e on a rope with rocks zipping past you it doesnt seem euch a bad idea.

Surely not throwing rocks is "common sense" - but that's why we end up with so much H&S regulation, things that are common sense to one person are not too another.
 

Geoff R

New member
My guess is that the last thing some walkers may think about is the rare chance of a caver far below, who they cannot hear or see from the surface, with no sign of surface rigging.
Many may be only occasional visitors to the Dales.

I fully support a sign (with suitable explanation applicable to ANY hole)  (y)
 

Andy Sparrow

Active member
I suspect sooner or later some caver in GG would be hit on the head by a falling "do not throw stones down this hole' sign.
 

Andyj23UK

New member
Sadly - with some people - the sign would be counter productive

there is a reportedly a ` certain element ` of local NEDS who deliberatly throw rocks and other debris down the " cathedral chamber " at box mine , wiltshire in response to hearing mine explorers below
 

moorebooks

Active member
GG shaft is sufficiently remote for only genuine walkers to be there and I am sure they would respect a genuine sign.  It would make sense to install a couple of signs

H&S is cr.p unles you are at the receiving end of lack of it

Mike
 

Goydenman

Well-known member
I too am fed up with so many signs especially the ones pointing out the obvious. But throwing stones down drops to see how far it goes is something that people do and in fact numerous cavers do (I do) when first exploring a system i.e. no one has been down and knows how far it goes. So at a place like GG I would think it a good idea to remind visitors that cavers can be below.
 

Speleotron

Member
I'm all for common sense aswel, and signs are getting silly, I saw one by a building site that instructed parents to educate their children about the dangers of building site, well that should be obvious.

But I dont think that knowing not to throw stones down GG is that obvious, it would be to us, but a walker, maybe one not familiar with the countryside, seeing that hole would never expect anybody to be down there so it isnt really common sense. The person throwing the stones was very supprised when he was asked to stop and said that he didnt think anybody would ever be down there, and apologised.
 

khakipuce

New member
Some research suggests (see Section 4, page 8 of http://www.ccp-online.org/docs/artikel/03/3_03_IJSC_Research_Griskevicius.pdf) that what is on the sign is very important, a lot of signs encourage exactly the behaviour they are intended to prevent. Saying "Do not throw rocks" may well put the idea of throwing rocks into the minds of some people. However a sign ponting out that "No one else is throwing rocks", and may be giving information about why, how deep GG is, etc. may be better.
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
If someone is sufficiently keen to take this on, it needs to be done either through the Council of Northern Caving Clubs, or directly with the Ingleborough Estate Office.

The last sign that was unilaterally put up at the top of the Main Shaft was removed.
 

kay

Well-known member
Quite a few people seem to take the walk through the woods to Ingleborough Cave and then decide to head further on. There's a good path, and it's not that far, and GG is right on the path up to Ingleborough so there will be people up there who are more Sunday strollers than walkers.

There is already an info sign up on the railings - one possibility would be add it to this (although there will be many who go straight to the hole without going anywhere near the info board. Or one could put up a general information sign somewhere near Ingleborough Cave, saying don't throw anything down any shaft.

 

Tony_B

Member
Some years ago we were just out of a dig on the Black Mountain when we heard a quad bike approaching. A few minutes later two National Park bods appeared and banged a sign into the ground next to the dig that said 'Danger - Deep Hole' or something along those lines. As we walked off the hill it became clear that they'd put one of these next to just about anything resembling a cave, dig or shakehole. There were dozens of them! They lasted about two weeks, as I recall, and I am told that the posts the signs were on made good digging timber, being weatherproofed and all.

The ridiculous thing about the whole idea was that a casual walker strolling up the obvious main track onto the hill would see a sign and think 'Hmm, wonder what that sign says...?' and venture off the track to take a look, thereby increasing the risk of their falling down the very hole the sign was supposed to be warning them about. Why this hadn't occurred to the Nat Park folk before they spent the time, money and effort on the whole thing remains a mystery.

And, of course, the signs were hideous eyesores despoiling an otherwise wild and beautiful place.

 

paul

Moderator
Unfortunately a caver called Mabel Binks was killed in 1936 when a passing walker chucked a rock into Alum Pot...
 

AndyF

New member
I was going to say Alum Pot is possibly a higher risk candidate than GG...

Some oik would throw the sign down the hole though....  :cry:
 
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