Advice on equipment to take photos

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craige

New member
Hello, I am hoping to get some advice on starting taking photos underground. I'm relatively new to caving having come from a background in diving (which I still do). I've got a bit of camera equipment already:
1. a small casio exilim with a waterproof housing - I've used this a couple of times with some mediocre results. Just a point and shoot. It is a little bit bulky in the housing so not convenient to just put in the pocket.
2. my normal underwater setup which is a sony nex with a dome port and wide angle predominantly.
3. a dslr setup which i use for overground stuff.

So I'd like to start taking some photos on my trips and I am just looking for some advice on what to use and what people recommend?

My thoughts would be I wonder about a small camera to fit in the pocket but this would have to be waterproof etc - but am I going to get any decent results with this??

Or what about using my dslr setup - but presume I'll need to carry a tripod and think about lighting and this is going to be bulky so what do you do.

Any thoughts gratefully received - thanks.
 
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Olaf

New member
If I shepherd novices around, I'll take a small and robust, waterproof camera and live with the mediocre results.

If I know that I'm going somewhere special and won't annoy my fellow cavers by making them wait, I'll take more serious gear with me: a mirrorless camera and most importantly flashlights!

There is no middle ground in between, or if there is, I'm not aware of it.

And most of the time I have my small camera the problem is actually not so much the camera, but the lighting. You'll get reasonable good results even with a small camera if you cave with people who carry powerful lights around. Although these results might not be quite good enough to win you competitions.
 
ogofmole

ogofmole

Member
You can get very good results with a simple point and shot camera. But you will need off camera flash. I use a Olympus TG-2 a Firefly 3 and a remote flashgun.

 
Duncan S

Duncan S

New member
I think that's top advice from Olaf.
As he says, it depends whether you want competition winners, or to create a better record of the trip.
If the latter then you may already have everything you need apart from some basic off-camera lighting and practice using it.

I started out by taking a point and shoot transported in a Darren Barrel with some small video lights; I got surprisingly decent results!
It's the lighting that makes the shots, not the camera.

Since then I've graduated to taking a DSLR in a Peli case with lots of lighting; these are definitely NOT suitable for a regular trip as the bag is extremely cumbersome and it takes time to faff around with the lighting.
You need some very tolerant caving companions.
 
Antwan

Antwan

Member
To start with you could probably get away with a small pocket tripod, and using the manual/program mode for a long (2-4second?) exposure and light using head torches or whatever lighting you have available. (pound shop?)

Keeping your light source away from the camera keeps the picture dynamic and avoids pictures of mist.
 
Les W

Les W

Active member
Antwan said:
To start with you could probably get away with a small pocket tripod, and using the manual/program mode for a long (2-4second?) exposure and light using head torches or whatever lighting you have available. (pound shop?)
Click to expand...

Light painting can be very effective but your models have to keep still for the duration of the shot.
 
jonnyrocketboots

jonnyrocketboots

New member
How near to Derbyshire are you Craige? Rob Eavis puts on a very interesting cave photography workshop in conjunction with the Derbyshire Caving Association once a year!
It's a days course and he'll show you how to get the best out of your kit.
I went a couple of years back, fascinating day. Bit of classroom stuff in the morning and have a look at kit and settings and stuff and in the afternoon head underground for some practise
Thoroughly recommend!
 
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blackholesun

New member
I'd recommend getting a cheap flash as your first purchase and start getting to grips with that. (Long exposures, manually firing). It's quite different under than over; bounce flash doesn't work and fill flash is obviously not so hot as you don't have ambient lighting.

A cheap flash should be a fiver from ebay and fit in an oversuit, wrapped in a few bags. I wouldnt spend a lot as it's so easy to kill them underground (I've destroyed five in two years).

If you get one with a thyristor this can simplify things. Simply set the flash gun calculator to ISO 200, f5.6 for example, set your camera to the same, hold the flash at arms length or ask someone to hold it, ask for lights off, open shutter, fire. The flash will shut off once the exposure is met, resulting a slight 'underexposure' to the off axis camera. This usually fine though as faces and stal reflect more than rock and they are the important things to expose for.
 
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craige

New member
Thanks for the responses so far.

For robust small waterproof what do people choose? Is an older second hand Panasonic lumix or maybe an olympus 1050 options? This seems like a first start?

Johnyrocketboots - I'm Devon based so quite a way from Derbyshire. But maybe I should see if there is something down here?
 
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prahja

Member
I'd suggest offering to help a photographer at your club on a few trips - you'll get an idea about lighting and gear, etc....
I know people who have won prizes at Hidden Earth with light painting and a point and shoot.... but similarly many people take gear worth thousands unbderground. It's how you use it and what you want to do that matters... ask 10 cave photographers and you'll get 10 answers.... I really think going along with someone who knows what they are doing and watching is helpful....
Well, that's my suggestion....
 
paul

paul

Moderator
IMHO, the first thing to to to have a chance of getting any decent photos underground is to not use a flash too near to the lens, which precludes any on-camera flash (other than to fire a slave). Not only does the light tend to bounce off water droplets straight back at the camera but it also makes for a a very flat and boring photo.
 
DannyW

DannyW

New member
Once you get a couple of cheep flashes like the yongnuo 560 IIIs with a wireless trigger and some sort of defused you will rarely need a tripod. I only use my tripod when taking very low light photos. This shot was taken with a nikon d5200 with two yongnuo flashes, one in my hand with a white pillow case over it and one behind the model. No tripod. https://flic.kr/p/rjEgBt
A third flash is needed for any medium sized chambers and a fourth for a large chamber but you will need a tripod to get a lower shutter speed without increasing the Iso above 100
 
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prahja

Member
DannyW said:
you will rarely need a tripod.
Click to expand...

I disagree ! I almost always use a tripod - for several reasons:

1. It slows you down and makes you think more about the composition
2. Lighting and composition is more reproducible - you can make tweaks more easily
3. If you have a scen well lit apart from certain problem areas it is very easy to then light those areas differently and use software (eg photoshop) to add bits from different photos....
4. It gives you more options in terms of mixing lighting - eg getting nice soft lighting from light painting along with high speed flash
5. I just like the photos I take with a tripod more than I like the photos I take without it !

As I said - ask 3 cave photogrpahers and you'll get 6 opinions.... it really is worth going along with someone to see what they do with their models and lighting....
 
Duncan S

Duncan S

New member
prahja said:
As I said - ask 3 cave photogrpahers and you'll get 6 opinions.... it really is worth going along with someone to see what they do with their models and lighting....
Click to expand...

I agree on this!
I haven't yet taken a tripod underground...
Composition with an ultra-wide lens isn't very intuitive and there is no substitute for moving around in all three dimensions until it works. Tripods just get in the way!

I usually bracket my exposures 5-stops with the camera on shutter priority set to the slowest speed I can safely hand-hold; the camera juggles ISO and aperture (usually wide open) to do the bracketing - works a treat as long as I don't mind the shadows frequently being exposed at 12800 ISO (not a problem). With the camera set to Gatling Gun mode, I only need a single button push to do the 5 frames and the differences between frames is small enough to be tolerable.

Admittedly I can only do the above because I use continuous lighting.
But that's another huge variable between the ways cave photographers seem to do things!
 
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prahja

Member
Hee hee hee ! I struggle to use ultra wide *without* a tripod :) (although in truth I dont often go ultra wide underground....)
 
Duncan S

Duncan S

New member
prahja said:
For clarity - by ultra wide I mean wider than 20mm (full frame equivalent)
Click to expand...
Seems reasonable :)

My local cave I'm spending a lot of time down with the camera is quite tight, and I struggled to get anything decent with the 28mm focal length on the compact camera I was using for reccies.
So I've pretty much settled on using a 15mm fisheye on the big camera; which is ideal (for this cave) other than the challenge of trying to find a decent composition with a 180deg corner to corner field of view!
 
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