Eldon Hole Thoughts

If a dig to empty it was to be organised, would you get involved?

  • Every spare minute

    Votes: 7 17.1%
  • Probably not

    Votes: 6 14.6%
  • At weekends

    Votes: 5 12.2%
  • Never, leave it well alone!

    Votes: 2 4.9%
  • When I could

    Votes: 21 51.2%

  • Total voters
    41

alastairgott

Well-known member
i think the eldon dig would be incredible but unfortunately i think you would probably have to remove all of the rubble in the chamber before you found anything! electric winch on the pitch, track used in mine's through the crawl and a quad bike with a trailer to take the rubble down the hill.

i think you could probably sell the rubble as hardcore to builders merchants, just an idea!
 

Brains

Well-known member
Now that would be a series of grand days out, is the snow plug still in there? Perhaps if every visiting caver brought out a sackful that would be a start!
I understand two locals were paid for a year or two to tip rubble in, and that the hole has had a dry stone wall around it on a number of occasions, so plenty to shift before you get to the ice age layers and the hippos, bears and lions that are probably in there. Suppose the Romans would have chucked in a few votive offerings as well... Perhaps Time Team would do the job to start with?
 

Goydenman

Well-known member
alastairgott said:
i think the eldon dig would be incredible but unfortunately i think you would probably have to remove all of the rubble in the chamber before you found anything! electric winch on the pitch, track used in mine's through the crawl and a quad bike with a trailer to take the rubble down the hill.

i think you could probably sell the rubble as hardcore to builders merchants, just an idea!

I remember someone (was it Janet North??) arranging just such a plan except she had arranged for one of the quarry lorries to take it away I think all a bit vague now plan a long time ago but unfortunately fell through.
 

SamT

Moderator
last I heard, that was where the titan winch could be relocated to. Would have been perfect credit crunch expedition fodder.

how about cutting a trench right across the chamber following the solid floor - time team stylee. Start at the back where the rubble is presumably thinnest and work back to towards the entrance, shoring up the side walls with scaff/gabians/shuttering & acrows. You should then hopefully intersect anything running across the floor.

Note - King nor Lloyd ever saw this shaft. Lloyd was 'informed by a gentleman who lives near the spot' about the second shaft, and King 'received some information from the wife of one of the miners who had been down'

Old wives tale ???
 

Brains

Well-known member
This is only one of a series of big shafts, so I guess it will descend to the water table eventually. If the formation of these is related to underlying salt domes, or other deepseated corrosive fluid sources, then the shafts could descend a long way below the current water table?
 

Brains

Well-known member
"Mod by SamT - topics now merged"

Eldon is one of many deep shafts towards the northern edge of the limestone outcrop(Eldon Hole, Titan, JH, Block Hall, Nettle, Winnats Head Cave, Ventilator, etc.). These are probably formed by more traditional means of cave genesis, but may be due to deep seated corrosive solutions from below the limestone. The base of many of these shafts is masked by debris, so may actually be much deeper than the current water table?
Most of these shafts are associated with significant stream ways, why would Eldon be any different?
What are the difficulties in organising a dig to empty the hole of recent debris, and on down through the archaeological and palaeontological layers below?
How many permissions would be required, and how much funding?
How long has Eldon been open to surface?
Any thoughts, points or discussion?
 

alastairgott

Well-known member
i don't know how much more you could do but i think the first step would be to try to excavate the crawl a bit more. then start at the top of the slope taking debris out of the cave and generally work down the pile of debris. but i suppose this is all a bit obvious. i somehow doubt funding would be the limiting factor, i think it would be manpower...
 

Big Jim

Member
Have you not read the lloyd and King reports from 1770 then? Tales of a large stream below the now much filled in Eldon Hole etc etc.  If I win daft money on the lottery my first big spend is on cranes n shit to empty it. If you wanna read the reports send me PM n Ill email you them

J
 

dunc

New member
i somehow doubt funding would be the limiting factor, i think it would be manpower...
Could be, but look at the number of people turning up for the "credit crunch expedition" - I would have thought that if the dig was sold to the caving public well enough you would get a reasonable turn out.. Look at how well Ireby's "Grand Days Out" worked, I don't see any reason why Eldon couldn't gain the same support  :confused:
Whilst nobody knows what lies beneath there must be something down there..
 

graham

New member
Best hope is for Jim to win the lottery 'cos the best bet is a serious crane to shift stuff out of the entrance. That job would be very dangerous with anything other than proper kit. Would you want to be at the bottom of a 200' shaft that some makeshift winch was being used in?

It would be extremely interesting to get a proper evaluation and costing done by an engineer and then see how much cash needed to be raised.
 

khakipuce

New member
graham said:
It would be extremely interesting to get a proper evaluation and costing done by an engineer and then see how much cash needed to be raised.

Believe it or not I used to be such an Engineer on tunneling projects in London. But this is one of those "piece of string" questions. How long would it take? How deep would the shaft be? And once you start paying people to do work the full might of the Health and Safety at work act and all it's attendant regulations come in to play.

I guess proper "engineering" would mean site investigation (e.g. boreholes), possible stabilisation of the existing hole (scaling, rock bolting, etc to protect the workforce and excavation) and if there is room, putting an excavator down there. All of which would be pretty damaging to the site. Not to mention general access, muck-away, site facilities, generators, etc.

May be better to talk to the Craven or the Bradford about how much their winch meets cost.
 

Goydenman

Well-known member
Manpower I dont see as a problem - I have learnt in my field of work that people respond well to a big purpose if they also have information that there is a likley guarantee of success. Although the hole is wider and deeper than the Titan surface shaft there is the advantage that people can move away into the main chamber while things are hoisted and return once the bucket is back down.
 

Brains

Well-known member
Things that might be of use for the "long haul"...
Crane / Derrick / A frame for hoisting
Decent kibble
Farm trailer and tractor
Somewhere to empty it
Decent shaft bottom shelter
Somewhere to examine/store finds once they start turning up
At best the water table will be met at the depth of main rising? At a guess 600' ish, I am sure one of you will provide a more accurate guesstimate
 

braveduck

Active member
Well the Bradford won't be clearing out GG Main Chamber any time soon.
We now know its got 90 ft boulders in it.
 
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