Who's Who in Caving "Donald Robinson"

Norris

New member
Where to start?

All though only returning to caving at the beginning of 2010, after a break of over 10 years, I have long held the belief that there should be a central Who's Who of the caving world, past and present, and it was only after first using the UK Caving forum for a couple of weeks, and after uploading some book information, that I realised that the Who's Who does exist on the Caving Wiki.

I would suggest that not everyone may agree, but as the years move on the potential to capture this information is lost (some people leave the caving circle, others die). Just between the current users of the UK Caving website that has to be a mass of stored information, that if not recorded will be lost.

The Who's Who (need a better name, but it is early) is found in the Caving Wiki / History / People.

My current proposal is that I will start to update information in this area, add more names, dates of birth and death if applicable, what that individual did of note, etc. The list could be endless. As a for instance is Donald Robinson, a quick google doesn't reveal much more than that he wrote two books in his life, Caving and Potholing along with Anthony Greenbank in 1964, and a caving book in the "Know the Game " series in 1967. Wouldn't it be great if we could actually record somthing more about him.

Donald Robinson is only an example, many of the few names on the Caving Wiki Who's Who have no information at all.

All for now, if anyone has any comments / better ideas / if anyone wants to tell me it has all ready been done, and I just don't know about it, go for it.....................................


 

SamT

Moderator
Yep - The ukcaving wiki has the potential to be an awesome resource of information/history etc etc. It just needs people.

A: to be aware of its existence..
B: to actually get their heads down and contribute to it. Its not hard, or technologically difficult.

So - Go to it!!
 

susie

New member
The only problem that I can foresee is that if it includes active cavers, it could become a vehicle for self-aggrandisement as happens on Wikipedia.
 

Norris

New member
Thanks for the input so far, of course the negative things that may happen, have the potential to happen now, whether we move on or not. If the section becomes more relevant and popular it would be open to more abuse, but I guess same as on main Wiki, strict moderation helps, and possibly a yellow card / red card system, three abuses of the system sees you red carded for a year for instance?

I guess there is no system for filtering info prior to upload, to check for obvious abuse?

But then again, cavers are a responsible bunch, it won't be neccassary?

We don't want too many restrictions in the system, thats against the concept of Wiki thinking, so active cavers are as much a part of "History" as are past cavers.

Hey, if nothing else we have got an active thread on UK Caving Wiki Project ;)
 

Norris

New member
After just a few hours this topic falls off the recent post list on the home page.

Given that expansion of UK Caving Wiki is important (in my view anyway), would it be possible to have some sort of notice about what we are trying to achieve and a link to History / People till we get the thing afloat. Is this an option, is this a questin for Bubba?

Thanks
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Just a thought - do you think that all cavers want loads of personal information about them making available to the whole world? Some might have very good reasons not to want this.

I fully understand (and applaud) the spirit in which this is being proposed but I'd suggest it's definitely a case of "proceed with caution".

One simple way to get round this problem is only to set up information about someone posthumously - although a lot of interesting information about active cavers would then be denied. Another way of controlling sensitive information might be only to put something up on the Wiki if the operson to whom it relates has first given their permission.

Please don't think I'm agin the idea - I just wanted to say let's not get too carried away before having thought it all through very carefully.

(In case it helps, isn't there already an extremely simplistic voluntary version of this in the form of a cavers' directory on the Descent website? In that example all entries are provided voluntarily by the person involved, so they have a choice as to whether they are featured and, if so, how much information is given.)

This idea has loads of potential but it either wants doing right or perhaps not at all. (I hope people regard this as constructive criticism; I'm certainly not just suggesting the idea gets canned.)
 

dunc

New member
One simple way to get round this problem is only to set up information about someone posthumously
That could be done easily enough and without too many problems.
For active cavers, it would depend on the individual, not that I'm worthy of mentioning but if I was I don't think I'd be too happy having my name, date of birth etc available to all and sundry (ID theft and all that), one has to be careful these days..

Good idea though. Would the layout be like the authors section? Once you have the layout sorted you could perhaps start it off with cavers no longer with us and then put the request on here for active cavers to add their own details - you can but ask, it might take off or it might not, only time will tell. If it's anything like the rest of the wiki don't expect miracles with loads of people adding information!
 

Norris

New member
Thanks all for the input so far. I generally agree with everything that has been said. So based on what has been suggested could I offer this as an initial model, and following standard Wiki rules.

One list of names. 

Posthumous entries; Information can be input by anyone.

Entries for living cavers; Information only to be input by caver concerned, or at their request.

I would be happy to get involved to some degree in inputting information on behalf of those who have information, but don't have the capability or the equipment to upload it themselves.

Just to reiterate why I think this is so important. For current cavers and personalities of the past twenty years there is ample opportunity to record using many different means including the internet and digital media, their achievements, history's, photographs and life stories.

Cavers of the preceeding 80 years didn't have that luxury. Unless someone can tell me differently there isn't a central database of cavers past, and if that database isn't well publicised and used, then this information will never be recorded and will be lost.  Relevant info could include caving club(s) belonged to.

Could I ask a hypothetical question. Does anyone have any information on Eccles Caving Club. Google tells me the names of only two members, Brian Saville and Alan Marshall. Even if other clubs have old newsletters or information on Eccles Caving Club, then if that information could be collated on UK Caving, we would be providing a useful service for the greater good. If we don't have any info on Eccles Caving Club, then potentially it is lost.

Back on "Recent posts"!
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
Norris said:
Entries for living cavers; Information only to be input by caver concerned, or at their request.

I was under the impression that the consensus of opinion was not to have living cavers?
 

Norris

New member
langcliffe said:
Norris said:
Entries for living cavers; Information only to be input by caver concerned, or at their request.

I was under the impression that the consensus of opinion was not to have living cavers?

To be honest I didn't count for or against including active cavers. I think the important thing is to get this thing off the ground, and if we start with posthumous entries then so be it.

It is worth noting that this thing is all ready in use, and for instance (excuse the reference) but Tony Oldham has an entry with plenty of personal information, and I am fairly certain he is very much alive.
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
Norris said:
It is worth noting that this thing is all ready in use, and for instance (excuse the reference) but Tony Oldham has an entry with plenty of personal information, and I am fairly certain he is very much alive.

Yes - there is a link to an advertisement.
 

graham

New member
langcliffe said:
Norris said:
It is worth noting that this thing is all ready in use, and for instance (excuse the reference) but Tony Oldham has an entry with plenty of personal information, and I am fairly certain he is very much alive.

Yes - there is a link to an advertisement.

:LOL:
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Interesting comment about Eccles Caving Club - just shows that Google isn't the be-all and end-all!
The ECC is still very much active and still pushing certain of its traditional sites of interest. It certainly has more than 2 people. If you want this sort of information sometimes you have to ask people instead of relying on the internet.

I digress - the idea is good and it just wants doing right. One reason is to avoid it becoming an identity thief's charter. Starting with posthumous entries is probably a very good way to test the water directly.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
While I remember - and to amplify on your other example; Don Robinson co-wrote that main book with Tony Greenbank. Tony is very much around and actively writing as a part time outdoor journalist. He could probably fill in a few details about Don. Another person who could probably tell you loads is of course Harry Long.
 
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