Starting to Survey: gear options?

Amy

New member
What better place to ask gear questions than the Internet, right? I thought a thread might be better than a question I posted in the distox2 thread and I don't see a recent tool options thread.

Basically I hate reading a compass. I suck at it. Inclinometer is fine. Pulling tape is fine. I even took my helmet off and used a low power flashlight at arms length to read the compass to not get any interference as I was told a headlamp will throw it off. Nope. My forward and back sights were never matched only consistent with themselves.

I know a disto doesn't need backsight just press the button and bam all the data but their website looks like it's just for the software so I'm quite confused.

And of course the question I'll get yelled at for: any cheap digital compasses out there that would be easier? One of the hardest parts for me is reading the number while siting the station. I struggle splitting my vision like that.
 

graham

New member
Surveying takes more than one. Learn to take notes and sketch well. Let the other mug read the instruments.  Don't get a cheap compass.
 

badger

Active member
have you tried looking at the BCRA website. also you might want to e mail decent, as they have recently had a review on the new disto.
I now use disto x and a pda with pocket topo programme, still learning but find it much easier than compass/clino and drawing by hand,
 

Amy

New member
Yes, I have joined a team, they have old Suntoos (sp?). Like, ancient. Someone else likes keeping book already but they were showing me the ropes. Next time I will sketch. I was told good sketchers are hard to find, and I love art (and like to think I'm good at it....) and I draw caves already for fun. I have sketched up one survey, it was a small 60-ft pit. I think the sketching and cartography are the most fun parts, personally!
 

jarvist

New member
Amy said:
Basically I hate reading a compass. I suck at it.

Some people simply can't do the 'both eyes open' method with the compass (we had one guy who when they tried to do this, you could actually see him go wall-eyed attempting it). In this case the Suunto documentation recommends peering above and below with one eye only, with reduced accuracy. I sometimes do this when I'm very tired and my eyes don't really want to do two independent focusing levels at once.

Also compasses are very gentle instruments (the torque force applied by the Earth's magnetic field is tiny), you must relax and let the card settle, and be very cautious of when the card is not level and sticking (gently rock the instrument and see if the card twists at all).
A big bubble in the compass (when it gets trapped under the card) really messes this up - this is always the reason I've discarded old compasses (other than scratched view ports, which makes them delegated to surface surveying).

I'm not sure if trying to suppress these errors by jumping to an entirely different system with its own subtleties and greater complexity is the way forwards...  :confused:
 

Amy

New member
Point taken. I was working hard to make sure it was free floating and not stuck.  But the viewfinder was kinda discolored and numbers hard to read. I did try one eying it but that wasn't working any better (although fwiw when I shoot I do one eye and people yell at me for that, but I'm accurate at 150yards so.....whatever. I've only been to a range twice and people already  nicknamed me Amy Oakley because I'm a great shot so.....yes one eye works ha!)

Definitely could have been anything from user error to a bad compass (the other person was struggling too and he has surveyed a LOT - like 30 years - and said he has never had this much trouble with a compass before)

Are there any compasses that are easier to read or something? Or are all the same?
 

jarvist

New member
Amy said:
Are there any compasses that are easier to read or something? Or are all the same?

I've found the Suunto's (KB-14) to be the clearest instruments. Silva's have smaller apparent size (and the oil in our older ones went some funky blue colour!). The modern Suunto's also have a dioptre correction on the viewfinder, for if you need glasses.

I think there's a moulded plastic Suunto (KB-20) which might be slightly lower accuracy, but is perhaps more rugged for the cave environment. (I don't believe you can get the rubber enclosures for the Suunto aluminium instruments anymore - if anyone knows better, please do tell!)

Also, in turns of setup, I think you can misalign the viewfinder slit, which introduces more parallax error.
You can clean old instruments to varying degrees of success. With the modern Suuntos, you can unscrew the diopetre and (EXTREMELY CAREFULLY) clean out any cave mud with compressed air, then a moistened cotton bud, while holding the instrument vertically so any freed mud falls out. You can free the actual module for a more severe cleaning, but I've never dared this yet (you'd have to realign the painted line when reassembling).
 

Mr Mike

Active member
Switching from a tape to a good laser distance finder really speeds things up ! Personally I would take the plunge and get a Disto X kit and start using that - you will never go back.
 

kdxn

New member
Amy, get the DistoX2, it is really worth the investment !
One button push gives you compass, clino and distance.
No more awkward positioning to see along a Suunto compass or clinometer.
Every DistoX2 measurement has a compass and clino bearing, so better for passage cross sections.

I have been using a DistoX2 and a writing pad.
All my traverse observations and sketches get written down.
All the data including all the splay shots is logged internally on the DistoX2 and then Blue toothed to my Laptop when I get back to the surface. The sketches get photographed as a backup.
Then import everything into Therion and start drawing up on the Laptop.

You can consider getting a PDA to run PocketTopo later.
 

martinm

New member
kdxn said:
Amy, get the DistoX2, it is really worth the investment !
One button push gives you compass, clino and distance.
No more awkward positioning to see along a Suunto compass or clinometer.
Every DistoX2 measurement has a compass and clino bearing, so better for passage cross sections.

I have been using a DistoX2 and a writing pad.
All my traverse observations and sketches get written down.
All the data including all the splay shots is logged internally on the DistoX2 and then Blue toothed to my Laptop when I get back to the surface. The sketches get photographed as a backup.
Then import everything into Therion and start drawing up on the Laptop.

You can consider getting a PDA to run PocketTopo later.

Awesome. Re:- "All the data including all the splay shots is logged internally on the DistoX2 and then Blue toothed to my Laptop". What type of file format does it transmit back to your laptop?

Would love a DistoX2, but gotta get a new job first.  :(
 

Peter Burgess

New member
I have never used anything else but a Suunto. I use the one-eyed squint method. There is only one 'i' in squint. I do not believe there is any loss in accuracy by doing so. I have been in the winning Hidden Earth surveying team on two or was it three occasions, and joint winner on one. The misclosures on those competition circuits were never less than excellent. I say this not to brag about it - I haven't entered for several years now - but to point out that Suuntos are excellent devices and can be used to get excellent results. Additionally, I wear glasses when surveying as well as one-eye squinting. One thing to be wary of is whether your frames are magnetic. Always take a compass to the opticians when choosing your frames. Oh, and I have never found my headset lamp affected bearings either, although this too should be checked to make sure. The Hidden Earth circuits are nearly always around places with drain covers and metal fence posts and the like, so they are a good test of proper technique. The only thing they sometimes lack is a strong vertical component, because they tend to be around rather flat terrain.
 

Peter Burgess

New member
When choosing the frames for one's spectacles, offer up the frame to the compass to see if the disc moves. The only drawback is it does make you look a bit weird in the shop. The plus side is it's a great conversation topic for the shop assistants!  ;)
 

Fulk

Well-known member
'Two nations separated by a common language', eh?

'Optician' in UK English, Amy, is a person who tests your eyes when / if you need glasses . . . I daresay you'd call him/her an 'optometrist'?
 

kdxn

New member
To mmilner

PocketTopo can run on a Windows Laptop as well as a PDA.
The DistoX2 data is downloaded to PocketTopo and you then have the option of exporting a PocketTopo formatted file, a Therion format file or a good old fashioned txt file. I go for txt, then edit in excel before creating a Survex file.

 

Amy

New member
Okay i was wondering if that is what it was! Yes it is an optometrist here. I wear glasses but not underground.

So everyone is split between disto!!!! Or old school. I still dont see where to buy the disto itself im only seeing software downloads. Im for sketching on paper so im thinking idealy: disto 2 for the compass, clino, and distance all in one dealie. Write down the readingin the book as a backup and sketch in book by hand. Or am i missing something?

That may not work....money wise...i hear they are $$$ or im sorry, ??? :p
 

martinm

New member
kdxn said:
To mmilner

PocketTopo can run on a Windows Laptop as well as a PDA.
The DistoX2 data is downloaded to PocketTopo and you then have the option of exporting a PocketTopo formatted file, a Therion format file or a good old fashioned txt file. I go for txt, then edit in excel before creating a Survex file.

Thanx Kev. Does it run on Linux as well, do you know? My laptop runs Win 7 and Linux (which I normally use), though I could always run it in a VM. I will do some googling, lol.  (y)
 

sluka

New member
DistoX2, PocketTopo, PDA (Dell Axim x51V + 3600 mAh battery). Measuring many splay shots, drawing according them. Time from time I measure backsight just to control DistoX2. I very often use timer to have enough time to really fix my DistoX2. I export data to Therion (my choice) and redraw the final map. PocketTope is able to export 3D based on splay shots to DXF. There is another program which looks promissing for Android - Qave. For calibration of DistoX2 on Android you may use TopoDroid program. I check DistoX2 before any surveying trip between two points: I measure four shots with rotation of Disto (display up, right, down, left) from point 1 to 2 and I do the same for 2 -> 1. The maximal difference in compass and clino should be less than 1?.
 

Amy

New member
I forget who adked but yes rubber covers are still sold for tandom and single suntos - inner mountain outfitters has them here "locally".

Holy shit is all the gear $$$. To start with ill just borrow the grottos set and go old school. $250 for the tandem and about $300-$400 to get them seperate. At that price point is it worth it to go disto x2?
 
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