Kinderlow Cavern / The Belfry

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Stuart A

Guest
Would anyone have a better grid reference or description of the entrance to this fabled esoteric hole? I believe what's now known as Kinderlow Cavern is in fact The Belfry as described in CPD. I failed so far to locate it......

I found this reference on the web a few years ago but the reference has now disappeared: "A friend of mine has an old photograph of the keepers covering the entrance of Kinderlow Cavern with sleepers and heather. You can see the skyline above the Three Knolls on the photograph, and he spent some time trying to match that up o that he could find the site - but no luck yet.

What many people nowadays refer to as Kinderlow Cavern is in fact The Belfry (refered to in John Beck's "Caves of the Peak District") which looks out towards South Head from high on the flank of Kinderlow End. This is a fairly substantial slip cave with an entrance crawl, a small chamber and a 15ft pitch leading to a lower chamber."


Ta in advance of any info
Stuart
 

SamT

Moderator
Wow - my elderly family friend keeps harping on about some cave on Kinder - he'd read about it in one of the old Clarrion Ramblers journals.

I've always kind of dismissed it. Never realised it got a mention in COTPD.

I'd *love* to know exactly where it is - so that I could take my old mate to see it.
 

Pete K

Well-known member
From the Dark Peak OS map, its somewhere roughly around SK 069 866.
I've been up there walking with nav courses a few time and never found it. Getting to the right area is easy but I think its long gone/buried/hidden, or so I've been informed.
:confused:
 
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Stuart A

Guest
Ta all

069 866 is a new reference - I know of a suspect at 0699 8663 but is only about 6 foot long to a very small chamber.

St
 
A

Alan Brentnall

Guest
I reckon that grid ref is about right - as you walk up Kinderlow End, well before you get to the tumulus which they've recently fenced off, it's just below the edge facing South Head. In fact once you're inside the cave, looking back out, you get South Head perfectly framed in the entrance.

The short entrance crawl leads to a small chamber and a further crawl on the right to a climbable pitch (down) of 3-4 metres. At one time one of the locals stashed a visitors' book, candles and a wad of stage money at the bottom of the pitch.

I posted the original quote, but I'm not really convinced that it is actually the Belfry - it doesn't fit the description. But the COPD grid ref, like that of Kinderlow Cavern, is in an unlikely location.

I remember seeing the photo of the keepers and the sleepers etc, and keep trying to get a copy. This would place Kinderlow Cavern somewhere on the slopes below or around the Three Knolls path (which, I suppose, is where you might expect to find a slip cave).

I'd also be interested in any further information on this one.
 
S

Stuart A

Guest
Ta Alan always wondered where the reference came from. Sheds a new light on the possible locations - I'd always assumed the CPD grid references were pretty accurate but maybe not!

The slopes above and below the Three Knolls path could hide anything! Do you remember anything else about the picture?

Sam .. Any infor you could dig up would also be gratefully received

St
 
S

Stuart A

Guest
Well to those who want / need to know The Belfry is here SK 06817 86555. John Beck's description from COPD does fit this location pretty well.

As described by Alan a short crawl to a a chamber and two alternatove slots down a 4 m drop- freeclimable but interesting to a chamber 1-2 m wide by about 6-8 m long. Looks like there could be scope for an extension as well!

What's surprising is you can actually see the entrance from the Coldwell Clough to Edale Cross track.

Entrance
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13738358@N02/2853951134/

View from the entrance towards South Head- Guard dog is not a permanent fixture
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13738358@N02/2853940998/

Just need to find Kinderlow Cavern now....

Stuart
 
S

Stuart A

Guest

"Kinder Low subterraneous Cavern. Among the many wonderful caverns in Derbyshire, none seem, for extent and internal beauty, more to merit the attention of the curious observer of the hidden works of nature in her wild recesses, than the one which was explored on the 10th of July, 1830. It cannot consistently be said that this cavern is newly discovered, as the mouth.has been seen a considerable number of years by the shepherds visiting the mountains, but none before ever dared to venture to search into it. It is a well known fact in the recollection of several persons at Hayfield, that about twelve years ago, a party being out shooting on the hills, called Kinder Low, a covey of birds sprung up, when one of the party, not being ready to fire, threw his hat at them, which being carried by the wind, went down the mouth of the cavern, and one of them threw a stone down, which striking the hat (as is supposed) lessened the sound, so that the persons at the top concluded there was no bottom. However, on the day above-mentioned, a number of persons determined, if possible, to explore it : and having been previously informed of the exact situation, and providing themselves with every requisite, they arrived at the mouth, which, by its terrific appearance, almost daunted the courage of the most resolute. The entrance to the first landing is by a perpendicular descent of about five yards, when they again made a similar fall of four yards to the second landing ; the day disappearing, they lighted their flambeaux and candles, and proceeded down a steep descent in a westwardly direction. The sides and roof in this part are composed of huge masses of rock, so regularly and compactly united, that it might be the work of an architect: and after going through innumerable chambers, which for extent and loftiness of the roof, are not inferior to the most celebrated in Peak's Hole, they discovered an opening in the floor, through which they with difficulty descended, and found themselves in a part of the cavern which runs in a direction exactly parallel with the part above. Here the largest chamber they had gone through, seemed only as the portico to this amazing cavern : the eye could scarcely reach the lofty ceiling, the sides and floor of which were regularly formed of immense masses of solid rock. As they proceeded further in this subterraneous abode, they passed through many rooms similar to the former; in this part of the cavern there is a kind of soft stone, something between rottenstone and fuller's earth. But the lights being nearly consumed, they, without further delay, began to retrace their steps, for it would be impossible for any person to find his way back without light, owing to the innumerable openings branching out in every direction, KS it was with difficulty the party could find their way out, though each had a light in his hand. Having attained the surface, they found they had been under ground one hour and forty-five minutes, the whole of which time had been taken up in going through the cavern. It is more than probable that there is a great part yet undiscovered, for by every appearance, they had not gone through the half, as there were so many crevices. Kinder Low cavern is situate about a mile north-west of the Downfall, on the Scout. It is the opinion of several persons well acquainted with the strata of the rock, that one fourth of the hills in this neighbourhood are subterraneous, and with a little exertion, mines more extensive than any yet discovered in Derbyshire, would be found to exist."



The history and gazetteer of the county of Derby
By Stephen Glover
Published by , 1831
 
D

Derek S

Guest
I think that Kinderlow cavern has had at least two entrances.
In the Geological Survey 1887, there is the following description
"Kinderlow Cavern is not easily accessible. The entrance is through a fissure nearly vertical, and it is likely that the cavern itself is a large rent caused by the rock having parted along a joint end slipped slightly forwards. Appalling legends prevail in the neighbourhood of rash explorers who have lost their way and been imprisoned for a whole night in the cave."
This could fit with the Belfry, if there is an extension, but not with Glover's description of hat/stone falling into a deep hole!

In Luke Garside's "Kinder Scout - footpaths and bridle ways about Hayfield", 1880, reprinted by Willow Publishing, there is a sketch of the cavern entrance that does fit with Glover's description.
It appears to be on top of Kinderlow somewhere near the Barrow, judging by the background skyline.
Accounts of the cavern entrance being filled-in/sealed off with railway sleepers etc would also be more applicable to the sketched entrance than the Belfry.

You can see the sketch on
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/30745649@N07/?savedsettings=2879882966#photo2879882966




 

SamT

Moderator
Anyone got a copy of this image of folks filling in the hole with railway sleepers..

I'd love a digital copy, Im trying to put together a xmas  pressie for our family friend.
 

SamT

Moderator
just found this googling..

Head south passing Kinderlow Trig 079 871. Do not follow the path to Edale Rocks but at 078 868 head west to a short paved section which leads to Kinderlow ridge and the Cavern to reach gate/stile at 067 866.

which is close to what Pete's post quoted .. 069 866. Could petes be a long standing typo ???

 

SamT

Moderator
Found that Clarion Ramblers Journal..Year 54-55, page 100

3130951427_584646f840_b.jpg
 
Would anyone have a better grid reference or description of the entrance to this fabled esoteric hole? I believe what's now known as Kinderlow Cavern is in fact The Belfry as described in CPD. I failed so far to locate it......

I found this reference on the web a few years ago but the reference has now disappeared: "A friend of mine has an old photograph of the keepers covering the entrance of Kinderlow Cavern with sleepers and heather. You can see the skyline above the Three Knolls on the photograph, and he spent some time trying to match that up o that he could find the site - but no luck yet.

What many people nowadays refer to as Kinderlow Cavern is in fact The Belfry (refered to in John Beck's "Caves of the Peak District") which looks out towards South Head from high on the flank of Kinderlow End. This is a fairly substantial slip cave with an entrance crawl, a small chamber and a 15ft pitch leading to a lower chamber."


Ta in advance of any info
Stuart
Hi - I was here recently for other reasons but the attached may be of some use, to those interested
 

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  • kinderlow cavern 22.08.22.pdf
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On reading this thread, I remembered that I had covered the subject of Kinder Low Caverns in a book that I wrote many years ago about murders at Derbyshire lead mines &c. A trawl through my archives turned up the accounts from the Derby & Chesterfield Reporter in 1830, and from the Derbyshire Courier in 1841.
1830 Kinder Low.jpg
1841 Foxholes.jpg
 
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