As you walk to Swildons you may notice, hanging from the trees, blue discs about 8 inches across that have been cut from a neoprene-backed carpet and suspended on lengths of yellow wire. These objects are also to be found, in abundance, hanging from various passage walls at least as far as the Twenty. They have, apparently, been there for at least a week. My suspicion is that these have been used as markers in some sort of route-finding exercise and then just left there by twats who can't be bothered to remove their crap from the cave. Does anyone have any information on this, please?

The first time I went into Swildons I found a real crap in a dry bit of passage. Nice.

I have also noticed these and they actually go all the way down to Sump2, we were a bit baffled as to what they were for but persumed they were some form of markers. Thought we best not remove them incase the people who left them were still in the cave.

We went through Sumps 2 and 3 and saw no more there, so i would say they are just down to Sump 2 (tied to the rope). If i see them again i will remove them.

I am all for markers, but i wish people would remove them, more so when they are huge pieces of blue carpet.

Stu.

Stupot said:

I am all for markers, but i wish people would remove them, more so when they are huge pieces of blue carpet.

Stu.

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What sort of group needs to hang markers in the trees between Swildons and Priddy Green?

Andy Sparrow said:

Stupot said:

I am all for markers, but i wish people would remove them, more so when they are huge pieces of blue carpet.

Stu.

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What sort of group needs to hang markers in the trees between Swildons and Priddy Green?

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At least they are removable. Some pillocks have been known to spray arrows with paint in a few smaller Peak District caves.

Personaly I think if you need markers to navigate straight-forward cave passages, you shouldn't be there.

On the day they were placed I was informed by some students that they are part of a research project into psychology although more than that was not explained; the gist was that groups were following the markers (smiling faces, frowning faces) and filling in a questionnaire apparently. It was a reasonable supposition that these markers were going to be removed by the person placing them. Obviously this supposition was incorrect.

Andy, if they are still in the cave tomorrow they will be removed. It would be nice to have some feedback through this forum of their real purpose and why they have remained in situ so long (a week and a half).

I do not know which Uni the research is attached to.

cap 'n chris said:

On the day they were placed I was informed by some students that they are part of a research project into psychology although more than that was not explained; the gist was that groups were following the markers (smiling faces, frowning faces) and filling in a questionnaire apparently. It was a reasonable supposition that these markers were going to be removed by the person placing them. Obviously this supposition was incorrect.

Andy, if they are still in the cave tomorrow they will be removed. It would be nice to have some feedback through this forum of their real purpose and why they have remained in situ so long (a week and a half).

I do not know which Uni the research is attached to.

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They intended the students to possibly follow the markers all the way down to Sump2 !!???

:shock:

Maybe the markers that led towards sump two were the unhappy face ones that no-one but a twistedcynic would follow.

Good God :roll: We wouldent put up with his sort of thing up North you know :x

I have received some information about this. It seems that members of a particular university caving club were involved in this. They were staying at the BEC Belfry the weekend before last and were heard to describe a 'psychology' experiment they were involved with in Swildons Hole. I feel that the caving establishment should take this very seriously. I will be requesting CSCC to write to the club demanding an explanation. If no satisfactory explanation is forthcoming I think the club should be expelled from CSCC and banned from using Mendip caving club facilities.

Not wading in there then andy :roll:

The offending items have been removed. "AWH 2005" graffiti in roof just before duck 2 approaching sump 2 removed too. This sort of stuff should not be allowed to proliferate so a reminder to cavers to keep their eyes open. Report any concerns to canda@cscc.org.uk

And there was me thinking Andy was championing university clubs as one of the only ways of introducing young people to our precious and declining (in his opinion) pastime of caving.

How, exactly, would banning the club from Mendip huts aid his cause.

Education, as Im sure Andy would agree, must surely be the key, not exclusion.

Education, as Im sure Andy would agree, must surely be the key, not exclusion.




They shoud be shown the ERROR of thier way's[/quote]

Wolfart said:

Education, as Im sure Andy would agree, must surely be the key, not exclusion.




They shoud be shown the ERROR of thier way's

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[/quote]

Wire 'Em up to the Mains.......... ....................In Fallujah

Erring on the side of forgiveness and not knowing whether the student(s) in question had previously approached WCC* (the "guardians"/overseers of Swildon's Hole) about undertaking an experiment involving the placement of objects within the cave, I think this is a one off and should be treated as such and I do not personally imagine that pursuing this topic as suggested above would be beneficial. It is hoped that in general people who place objects in caves (for whatever reasons, be it digging, scientific research, "fun" or whatever) take responsibility for removing them at a later date or at least arranging for someone else to do so on their behalf.

Swildon's Hole is a very popular cave and it is usually easy to keep an eye on what's going on and also to arrange for a clean up when necessary. While I hope the objects recently placed in the cave will end up serving a useful research purpose it would also have been nice for things to have been tidied up afterwards rather than being (apparently) left for someone else to sort out. P.S. If the owner of the objects would like them back please contact me on canda@cscc.org.uk but be quick `cos I'm not going to store them for long.

* If anyone is in doubt about who to contact or how to go about contacting the relevant group/person with regard to research projects in caves please forward your enquiry to Council of Southern Caving Clubs Conservation & Access - email address in paragraph above.

good to have you back chris - where've you been .

I agree that someone needs to - and Im sure has - speak with the club in question, and Im sure they'll be apologetic and realise that leaving the markers behind was a bit thougthless.

Im sure that most people who have read this, will have a good idea that leaving stuff behind in caves is not on.

Personally - I find sweet wrappers far more offensive and you certainly see more of them than anything else.

Without wanting to poke a hornets nest (but diving headlong in anyway).

What are the thoughts on the fact that someone has carted in and positioned a feckin huge roadsign in the cave.

Personally, I find it hilarious and think it should stay put. But people in mendip appear to have double standards.

My personal view on the Swildon's Hole roadsign is that it serves no useful purpose*; I'll leave it to others to determine whether or not it deserves to remain where it is.


* Items placed in caves which serve a useful purpose, in my view, are entirely acceptable "foreign objects" and should be acknowledged as having a role, i.e. food dumps beyond floodable sections, traverse lines, fixed aids etc..

good to have you back chris - where've you been

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Thanks, Sam. I was away because of an upgrade to Mozilla which meant my computer logged me off; not having a record of my password meant I couldn't log back in until Bubba sorted it out. (Hero!).

I've written to a student group which was on Mendip that weekend to enquire whether they can shed light on this topic...