Right or Wrong to Enforce CV19 Vaccinations on Care Home Workers ?

Is it right or wrong to enforce Covid-19 vaccinations on care home workers?


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Paul Marvin

Member
I imagine this to be very 50/50 as where is the line drawn ? No bun fights guys ! just interested in people's adult opinions .

When I was waiting for my first AZ vaccination I was given the patient leaflet to read through and it said " not to be given to expectant mothers " So if I was a young lady working in a care home and thinking of starting a family I dont think I would have it , then I would lose my job ? ALSO what about the community care workers are they included as they dont technically work in a care home ?

Paul
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
Isn't Totalitarianism easy to achieve? All you need is MSM/goverment fearmongering and it's a done deal. Amazing.
 

paul

Moderator
Paul Marvin said:
When I was waiting for my first AZ vaccination I was given the patient leaflet to read through and it said " not to be given to expectant mothers So if I was a young lady working in a care home and thinking of starting a family I dont think I would have it , then I would lose my job ? ALSO what about the community care workers are they included as they dont technically work in a care home ?"

There are alternative vaccines to the Astra Zenica / Oxford variety. Perhaps another vaccine would be suitable for expectant mothers? Plus this may be a contra-indication while pregnant rather than someone hoping to get pregnant some time in the future.
 

NewStuff

New member
If you're working with vulnerable people then yes, it's a no brainier. Same applies to anyone in contact with patients in a Hospital, or other special needs care.
If someone gave your granny covid despite being able to significantly reduce the risk, you would be absolutely bouncing. It's no difference to needing a clear enhanced CRB.

And if you think this is totalitarianism, then I have a bridge to sell you. I have a very dim view of the shower in power at the moment,  but this is basic, common sense.
 

Paul Marvin

Member
paul said:
Paul Marvin said:
When I was waiting for my first AZ vaccination I was given the patient leaflet to read through and it said " not to be given to expectant mothers So if I was a young lady working in a care home and thinking of starting a family I dont think I would have it , then I would lose my job ? ALSO what about the community care workers are they included as they dont technically work in a care home ?"

There are alternative vaccines to the Astra Zenica / Oxford variety. Perhaps another vaccine would be suitable for expectant mothers? Plus this may be a contra-indication while pregnant rather than someone hoping to get pregnant some time in the future.

All the CV19 vaccines have  the same contra indications not just the AZ one  and they only have a temporary licences as well, I have had both mine I am not anti vacci just saying what my wife who was on the vaccine programme has told me .  (y)
 

aricooperdavis

Moderator
Doctors and nursers don't have to have the flu jab though, that's optional, despite the fact that flu is absolutely lethal in that age group. So if you're going to make the covid jab mandatory you should probably make the flu jab mandatory too.

I don't have enormously strong feelings either way, but I do find it disheartening how many people don't think critically about the relative risk of covid vs vaccine complications.
 

Paul Marvin

Member
aricooperdavis said:
Doctors and nursers don't have to have the flu jab though, that's optional, despite the fact that flu is absolutely lethal in that age group. So if you're going to make the covid jab mandatory you should probably make the flu jab mandatory too.

I don't have enormously strong feelings either way, but I do find it disheartening how many people don't think critically about the relative risk of covid vs vaccine complications.

Too true  (y) one can easily look both ways at things , Dr,s and Nurses etc do have to have certain vaccines BUT they have been tried and tested for over 50 years and above all have longevity trials on them . The hospital do offer staff the flu vaccine but its not compulsory.
 

aricooperdavis

Moderator
Paul Marvin said:
All the CV19 vaccines have  the same contra indications

I don't think that's true - the BNF has different contraindications for the different vaccines. It also says that where the risk associated with the virus outweighs the risk to the faetus then they should be used: https://bnf.nice.org.uk/drug/covid-19-vaccine.html
 

Paul Marvin

Member
aricooperdavis said:
Paul Marvin said:
All the CV19 vaccines have  the same contra indications

I don't think that's true - the BNF has different contraindications for the different vaccines. It also says that where the risk associated with the virus outweighs the risk to the faetus then they should be used: https://bnf.nice.org.uk/drug/covid-19-vaccine.html

I have already read the BNF  and as usual covers just about every contra indication known to man have you read the aspirin one ?
 

aricooperdavis

Moderator
Something else to consider - we need all the care home staff we can get right now, so anything that drives staff away should be avoided if possible!
 

Paul Marvin

Member
aricooperdavis said:
Something else to consider - we need all the care home staff we can get right now, so anything that drives staff away should be avoided if possible!

Never been a truer statement bro !
 

Mark Wright

Active member
Paul Marvin said:
aricooperdavis said:
Something else to consider - we need all the care home staff we can get right now, so anything that drives staff away should be avoided if possible!

Never been a truer statement bro !

Would you both be considering this if your 86 year old mothers were currently in a care home?

Personally I wouldn't want anyone who hasn't been vaccinated anywhere near my mother regardless of whether the care home or community staff chose not to be vaccinated or were clinically unable to be vaccinated.

Mark
 

2xw

Active member
If they don't like it there's loads of truck driver vacancies. Free market, is it not?
 

aricooperdavis

Moderator
Mark Wright said:
Would you both be considering this if your 86 year old mothers were currently in a care home?

Personally I wouldn't want anyone who hasn't been vaccinated anywhere near my mother regardless of whether the care home or community staff chose not to be vaccinated or were clinically unable to be vaccinated.

I don't mean to be callous, and I'm sorry that you're in that position. Of course I want to minimise the risk to care home residents, but I can see why people feel uncomfortable with the idea of mandatory vaccination, so am considering other factors effecting the decision.

If I were supreme overlord I think I would mandate vaccination, because (as I hinted at earlier) I think the risk/reward calculation is very strongly in their favour. But I can see how it's not a simple decision for the government right now. Particularly given the state of social care at the moment.
 

Speleofish

Active member
Although mandatory vaccination sounds attractive, the ethics are difficult. It seems irrational to enforce vaccination for care home staff when it's not mandatory for the NHS, given there are just as many vulnerable patients in hospitals as care homes. However, both the BMA and RCN are opposed to mandatory vaccination, so it may never happen. Meanwhile, large numbers of carers will quit and an already understaffed, demoralised care sector will get worse.

If all care home residents were vaccinated (or had been offered vaccines) the real benefit of vaccinating all carers would be quite small, probably outweighed by the loss of so many staff.

However, the government went into this knowing it would be very unpopular with carers, so presumably the modelling data were very convincing - unless it's a cynical ploy to gain political points.
 

tony from suffolk

Well-known member
NewStuff said:
If you're working with vulnerable people then yes, it's a no brainier. Same applies to anyone in contact with patients in a Hospital, or other special needs care.
If someone gave your granny covid despite being able to significantly reduce the risk, you would be absolutely bouncing. It's no difference to needing a clear enhanced CRB.

And if you think this is totalitarianism, then I have a bridge to sell you. I have a very dim view of the shower in power at the moment,  but this is basic, common sense.
Absolutely. It's only a matter of time until covid vaccination's compulsory for anyone, NHS or other, who tends to the elderly and vulnerable. There should be enough evidence for everyone that the elderly in care homes are hugely vulnerable, and that, however you cut it, having the vaccination is considerably less risky than being infected with covid.

Respecting people's individual freedoms is trumped by the imperative of not killing others to whom you owe a duty of care.
 

mikem

Well-known member
You can still catch the virus after vaccination, but the effects & longevity (of it) are generally reduced, so less likely to pass it on to those who are more likely to suffer.
 

ttxela2

Active member
My daughter works in a care home and they have set a deadline of 4 weeks time for staff to be vaccinated or they are out. My daughter was vaccinated long ago so will be unaffected but a number of her colleagues are uncomfortable for whatever reason and so potentially will be gone.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of vaccination they already struggle to attract enough staff of adequate quality.

If my elderly relative was there I'm not sure whether I'd be worried more about Covid or the potential impact on already stretched staffing levels.

Interestingly the company I work for has already implemented a statutory vaccination policy in Canada and is now rolling it out to the US and considering it for other regions. We are primarily a manufacturing company, I think the primary motivation is to prevent outbreaks affecting the bottom line.....
 
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