Sullivan's 1778 Tour reference to 980 foot deep 3 mile long cavern

Bob Mehew

Bob Mehew

Well-known member
My brother (who is into antiquarian books) mentioned to me a report by R J Sullivan in 1778 of a 980 foot deep 3 mile long cavern in the Ppeak District.  I have found that this is a reference to Sullivan's ?A Tour through parts of England, Scotland and Wales in a series of letters?.  A copy of Volume Two is available on Goggle Books at

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bjWru6Uj7LIC&pg=PA223&lpg=PA223&dq=suliven+high+peak+tour+1778&source=bl&ots=ylB95zNo-f&sig=ACfU3U0wMzoOHxVj5humhKUHNuoDKwsF3A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjyhZCP6brpAhXkRxUIHc7uBtEQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=suliven%20high%20peak%20tour%201778&f=false

and is downloadable as a searchable pdf.

Letter XVIII on p94 of the pdf does mention 3 mile length of a cavern which they explore with the "miners about Caftleton [Castleton]".  The entrance on p95 of the pdf is described as ?the top of the mountain, where the feiffure [?seissure] opens itfelf [itself] about three feet in diameter?. On p96 of the pdf, reference is made to this shaft being 420 feet perpendicular.  On p101 of the pdf, the statement is made that ?Altogether, the depth we had defcended [descended] was about one hundred and forty fathom, or nine hundred and eighty feet, and the length about three miles, according to the miners? calculation.?

Does any known which mine this might have been?
 
M

mikem

Well-known member
I know that when looking at Mendip descriptions from a similar period, that things were not always measured exactly how we would now. Perpendicular could mean at 90 degrees to the slope, so measured on the angle, rather than straight down, or the depth could be the furthest distance reached from the entrance, whilst travelling 3 miles on a circuitous route, or 3 miles is total for all passages. Whichever, once you have worked out how they did it, it often proves impressively accurate (unless they were making it up for the investors' benefit)

Feiffure probably fissure
 
M

mikem

Well-known member
p.56 "About a mile from Buxton is the first wonder of the Peak, called Poole's Hole", with 6 pages of description, followed by Elden Hole on p.62 (2 pages, "cattle frequently tumble into it").

Then speedwell, p.65 for two & a half pages, with the miners trying to reach a cavern on the opposite side of the hill (2 more pages, which is the one Bob mentions).

Peak's Hole comes up next, p.71-78 & then 81-89 is visiting the aforementioned mystery shaft, so most likely James halls over engine? (They did leave a call out!)
 
M

Martin Laverty

Member
From John Beck's Peak-Speedwell bibliography (via https://peakspeedwell.info/index.php/special/bibliography):

"Sulivan (sometimes recorded as Sullivan), in Derbyshire in August 1778, was of a curious and adventurous turn of mind, and asked questions. Besides Peak and Speedwell, he accompanied miners down a 420ft deep shaft, and hence through mine levels and natural caves to a great gulph, which they believed to be the caverns to which Speedwell was then driving. Letter XVI records the trip into the Staffordshire Speedwell lead-mine as it was being opened, mentioning that "On the other side of the hill...a monstrous cavern continues itself, as it is said, for upwards of three miles." It encountered lead veins but was too expensive "to work in its natural state; the idea of a water conveyance, therefore, presented itself. This channel was accordingly contrived".. Letter XVII is the basis for many subsequent accounts of Peak Cavern. Letter XVIII is one of the most important references, describing how "the spirit of curiosity had warped our rational faculties ...[into] exploring the three-mile-cavern". See also Pilkington (1789) for another account; then Shaw (1983) for the cave's rediscovery...upward from Pilkington's Cavern

Sulivan (1752-1806) was Irish, lived in India until 1784 (when he made his - apparently second - tour), and became an MP in 1787, and was made a baronet in 1804. (after Oxford Dictionary of National Biography [as Sullivan])"
Click to expand...
 
danthecavingman

danthecavingman

Member
Sulivan's Cavern is Pilkington's series and this exploration was made before the Speedwell Level had reached the underground river - read Letter XVI a few pages back. Pilkington described the descent in a separate account.

I can't recall immediately who wrote one other account of a trip into Speedwell and was told of another way out to the surface through an alternative series of mine workings via the Boulder Piles - it was the discovery of this account that led to JH being dug out and Leviathan etc explored. PWhole will no doubt know the answer to this one.....

EDIT: It was James Plumptre - I can't find his account online though.

Dan.
 
M

mikem

Well-known member
Trevor Ford's 1992 article:
https://www.peakspeedwell.info/index.php/cave-sciences/cave-archaeology/21-speedwell-mine-inscriptions

Can be downloaded from (search plumptre):
https://pdmhs.co.uk/files/articles.php

States the full report is in cave science.

N.B. my page numbers above were for the original book, not the pdf, or the page numbers on website (as those include endplates etc)!
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Bob - I've just got in after several hours on the hill today to find a message from Tony Marsden who isn't registered on here, asking if I'll post some information for him. I've not even had time to read the above yet (so sorry if any of this duplicates what others may have posted) but here's what Tony wanted to be passed on:

Cave Science, vol 18, number 1 - April 1991, available as a free pdf download on the BCRA (library) website. (He could also go to a copy of "The Castleton Mines - a Descriptive and Visual History", by JH Rieuwerts & P Wolstenholme, 2016, if it's any help to him and his brother.
 
danthecavingman

danthecavingman

Member
mikem said:
Trevor Ford's 1992 article:
https://www.peakspeedwell.info/index.php/cave-sciences/cave-archaeology/21-speedwell-mine-inscriptions

Can be downloaded from (search plumptre):
https://pdmhs.co.uk/files/articles.php

States the full report is in cave science.

N.B. my page numbers above were for the original book, not the pdf, or the page numbers on website (as those include endplates etc)!
Click to expand...

Off topic but I can't get the list of inscriptions in the above article to load. Just wondered if that list was still available?

Dan.
 
Bob Mehew

Bob Mehew

Well-known member
Many thanks Pitlamp - I found a reference to Cave Science 18(1) by Tony in one of the other articles and that was the most comprehensive.  Would you thank Tony for the reference to Rieuwerts & Wolstenholme.  But thanks to all of you, I have now flooded my brother with enough material to satisfy his curiosity. 

I also managed to eventually get the PDMHS set up to work by specifying bulletin numbers.  If you want the set of 4 I found, then download a zip file from https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nKQ7QFyIBJkrxQJqVO0Q1ATV8HaBbN1w .  (Don't be fooled as I initially was, the Ford item is at page 60 and is not listed in the index.)
 
S

Scud

Member
danthecavingman said:
Off topic but I can't get the list of inscriptions in the above article to load. Just wondered if that list was still available?

Dan.
Click to expand...

I have just fixed those links, try again.
 
pwhole

pwhole

Well-known member
Thanks for the plugs! I do have a few copies left if anyone wants one - after that it's collector prices ;)

I recently found this extended elevation of the Speedwell system from many years ago, which I believe I may have also seen in one of Nellie Kirkham's boxes - I can't remember which though. I think this was a photocopy-quality printout from a microfilm in Sheffield Library which I then photographed, so apologies for the appalling quality. But it has some very interesting features not shown on other sections - not least Longcliffe shown connecting to Speedwell, presumably via the Halfway House. It's half-right, that's all, which is not often the case with these things which were often speculative. It also shows Pit Top Passage connecting to the surface, presumably beyond the current choke, which I still think should be poked. And that the hell's going on at the cavern entrance steps? I love the depiction of Cliff Cavern too.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3565_mod_sm.jpg
    IMG_3565_mod_sm.jpg
    408 KB · Views: 145
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top