Another Camera Thread

Tommy

Active member
I'm looking into buying a Canon camera to 'hack' with CHDK (to open up control of the exposure, aperture and so on).

Anyone have any thoughts on this being a good buy or not?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00791DQJU/ref=psdc_332215031_t1_B00IE4AI4C

It's 'tough', but a little older, and possibly expensive for what it is at ?200.

Some other options are some cheaper Canon's on a well known auction site at <?60 - not 'tough', but less painful when I inevitably knacker it in a tight silty tube...

 

Rob

Well-known member
Depends what you want to take photos for.

If it's to record places and to have some fun, a D20 with CHDK will be good.

If it's also to maybe take some great (quality) photos then something like a G9 with a DC21 underwater housing worked well for me, and still under ?150 on eBay. A bit bigger in the cave mind...
 

Tommy

Active member
That's the thing, I might just need to add photography to the hobbies list... any excuse to acquire more material possessions!

Most likely just for records and memories, if they come out looking good then all the better.

The G9 and case route looks like it will come to ?300 or so, the D20 is ?200. I'll ponder the difference.

Cheers Rob.

There's an SX150 on Gumtree for ?20, if it hasn't been snapped up already I'll see how knackered it is and perhaps have that as a stopgap, then make the bigger purchase before summer trips.
 

Rob

Well-known member
For records and snaps, the D20 will be good. A TG-4 would probably be better, although more expensive and no CHDK (i think): http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=19748.0

Be very weary of any compact camera that has an extendable lens mechanism, such as that SX150. In my experience they last only a few months. Best to put it in (and keep it in) a housing.

Second hand the G's often go cheapish:
G9 - ?135 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canon-PowerShot-G9-12-1MP-Digital-Camera-Black-plus-accessories-/222502616076
DC21 - ?35 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canon-WP-DC21-waterproof-case-for-a-Canon-G9-excellent-condition-/132181336654

 

Tommy

Active member
Ah nice, that's a bit cheaper! - The case costs the same to ship as it does to buy! Brings it in line with the D20 so it's just a size/quality trade off.

Yeah my last (cheapo tesco) camera died in Christmas Aven, I'd bought it for mountain use so hadn't given much thought to moving parts and ingress. Terrible cave camera.
If I do get the 20 quidder I'll treat it accordingly, and I'd be happy with a few months out of it for the money.

The Light Composite Mode does look brilliant, ?300 is really pushing what I'd be willing to take underground though.
There's plenty of  enjoyment to be had with the nerdery of CHDK and the extra control, I think I'll just look at the Canons for the time being.

I'm all out of photographing capability at the moment as the Z6 rear camera has died too! Selfies only on the wonder brick...
 

mrodoc

Well-known member
It would be nice if people used the words rather than initials when mentioning something new. CHDK meant nothing to me except by deduction that it was a way of influencing software. I had to do a Google search to confirm this.
 

ZombieCake

Well-known member
There are perhaps a couple of other options.  Why hack a camera if you can get one with manual controls etc. in the first place?  A few thoughts and examples: The Pentax Q mirrorless camera can be had for reasonable cash and has full programme, aperture priority, shutter and manual modes. For something compact & tiny a Panasonic LF1 is great (also available as the Leica C, but really too expensive in the Leica guise).  Or even a Pentax MX-1 compact.  I've used all and lenses are great (of course you won't get Leica or Hasselblad medium format quality unless you pay that sort of serious money).  There's probably plenty more out there from other makers, above examples are recently discontinued so prices should start to be reasonable.  I suppose it depends on how much you want to pay, how much mud it'll be exposed to, and how much you enjoy hacking things.
As a wilder card there's also film: plenty of very reasonably priced cameras out there and B&W, colour print & slide film is still available.  I was using my Olympus 35 RC rangefinder only last weekend (cost ?45), although the slight downside is that results are not instantaneous, but when developed you can usually get a CD of the results. And of course there's no photoshop or lightroom to initially hide behind when you look at negs or slides.
 

Tommy

Active member
mrodoc said:
It would be nice if people used the words rather than initials when mentioning something new. CHDK meant nothing to me except by deduction that it was a way of influencing software. I had to do a Google search to confirm this.
Thank you for your contribution, I am glad you were able to use your powers of deduction to grapple with my post and were able to use the most powerful archival and research resource ever created by mankind which is literally available at our fingertips to confirm your suspicions.

I shall endeavour to provide sufficient definitions for any onerous nomenclature in all future posts. This thread is entitled "Another Camera Thread", from which the reader may infer that a brief search of this forum will return a small number of prior threads on the subject, many of which mention 'CHDK' with varying levels of explanation provided. Perhaps one might consider that this thread was directed at those with some knowledge of CHDK, or be at least willing to research it in order to provide sufficient advice in answer to the question pertaining to the selection of a suitable caving camera in the original post.

For the sake of forum users referring to this thread who do not wish to conduct an arduous search engine query for "Canon hack CHDK", my limited understanding of the software based on a few minutes reading the other night is described below.

CHDK, or Canon Hack Development Kit is a piece of software developed by community effort for the past 8 years or so (hence it is not "new") for a reasonably comprehensive range of Canon cameras. It allows access to more advanced photographic controls than a 'point and shoot' style compact camera typically allows.

It is not a permanent modification, as it loads the necessary code onto the camera's onboard memory from the SD card at boot time. It is therefore relatively unlikely to cause damage to the camera, provided it has been ported to, and tested on your particular model before. By the looks of the camera list in the CHDK FAQ, a small number of versions are in the alpha stage so are potentially hazardous.

Potentially a boon to many amateur outdoor photographers, this software tool allows the end user to purchase old or entry-level cameras and produce higher quality photographs. The facilitates an acceptance such that the hardware will not be missed too greatly, nor the financial consequences be too severe should it be lost or rendered unusable by a harsh environment.

Hence it may be of particular interest to cavers, who need sufficient camera control to compensate for the challenging lighting conditions a cave can provide, whilst balancing the needs of a cheaper camera which may be worried about less when in transit underground. This is supported by the previous threads on this forum which discuss the tool and it's effectiveness in underground and outdoor applications.

PS I hope I don't come across as being facetious.
 

Tommy

Active member
ZombieCake said:
I give up. I have some magic beans for sale if anyone would like them.  ?5000, bargain.

Hi ZombieCake, my apologies I was on another thread.

Thanks for the camera suggestions, I'll have to weigh them up at the weekend. From first glance they don't look especially rugged but do look good at taking pictures, I know I'm likely to be putting the camera through some abuse in crawls and mud so would need to find a suitable dive case.

In terms of 'why hack?': It doesn't seem too tricky to do, and means that the D20 tough camera (or something cheap off Gumtree) becomes quite functional for its pricepoint and size.

I've had limited success trying to use a film camera 'properly' in the past, can't imagine I'd get anywhere underground, ease of use is a priority. Sadly I think that is a skill which is starting to fade out, save for the 'proper' photographers out there. DJing with Vinyl, baking your own bread...

Cheers!
 

ZombieCake

Well-known member
There is a glimmer of hope in the force:
I think that is a skill which is starting to fade out, save for the 'proper' photographers out there. DJing with Vinyl, baking your own bread...
There are basically two controls on a camera: the size of hole that lets light in and how long it is open for. Once you have that you can build on it for your creative control. Don't forget to focus!
 

Tommy

Active member
There is a glimmer of hope in the force:
- haha!

I'm looking forward to playing around a bit and learning when I get a camera, it'll be a stepping stone towards filom nirvana.

Kiddie's Tiger 35mm Camera > Disposable Film Camera > Primitive Digital Camera > Early Smartphone > Better Smartphone > Cheap Point and Shoot > ??? > Hasselbad's and Liecas...one day, maybe.

I wonder what the next paradigm shift will be, Lytro's certainly look interesting.
 

ZombieCake

Well-known member
A 100 Mega Pixel Hasselblad will set you back around ?30k http://www.hasselblad.com/h6-system/h6d-100c
I'm told it's OK to drool while pressing your nose to the shop window....  :cautious:
Currently looking at a Bronica or Mamiya or Pentax.  If you reckon on up to ?20 for a roll of film plus dev & scan you'll need to shoot a lot to hit ?30k, well that's my excuse to the bank manager anyway  :)
Anyway good luck with the camera choice!
 

Tommy

Active member
Wouldn't that be nice!

Cheers,  I found a second hand D20 on Amazon for ?160, so I'll spend the difference on a tripod and spare battery or something.
 

Tommy

Active member
droid said:
Yeah....a tripod would be...errr..*useful*.... :LOL:

Not sure what you're really trying to say.

Something like a little gorillapod to even out boulders when taking group shots on timer does indeed sound useful.
 
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