Formation of Helictites?

alastairgott

Well-known member
Just a thought do you think that temperature differences in cold periods (ice ages) could help with the formation of helictites?
Does anyone know if they grow in normal conditions?
 

gus horsley

New member
I don't know about temperature differences but I believe most helictites grow from either variations in draught ("bending" a water droplet), water squeezed under hydrostatic pressure through tiny pore or tubular spaces, or a mineral such as aragonite interfering with the formation of micro calcite crystals.  Or of course a combination of all these.
 

Amy

New member
From Virtual Cave:
The twisted shapes are due to many factors, including:
(1) impurities in the deposited calcite
(2) wedge-shaped crystals causing uneven deposition
(3) plugging of the central channel may occur in dry periods, and when flow resumes, the pressure may force a new channel out the side of the original one
(4) air currents may favor growth in a particular direction. Sometimes helictites are found facing the same direction down a passage (see upper left photo in thumbnail table below).

 

graham

New member
Amy said:
(3) plugging of the central channel may occur in dry periods, and when flow resumes, the pressure may force a new channel out the side of the original one

According to Vladimir Maltsev the central channel feeding thing is a bit of a myth, anyway.
 

Jon

Member
From direct observations I would have thought that draughts had little to do with their formation
 

graham

New member
There are certainly cases where draught is a significant factor, as there are places where large numbers of helictites are arrayed in broad parallel and it is difficult to think of a directional force, apart from gravity of course, which would otherwise be capable of producing this effect. However, it is clearly not always the dominant force and the fact remains that the one identifying feature of helictites (and heligmites of course) is that their growth pattern is affected mainly by a force other than gravity.

Two further points about the wind, the term anemolite can be used to describe stal that has been directionally affected by draughts and secondly, if the affect is due to asymmetric evaporation then it seems likely that the helictites will point into the wind rather than away from it.

In certain Aussie caves (especially) you can find large stalagmites whose growth is oriented by the light falling upon them. I suspect that most people would find these a bit too massive to be described as heligmites, though.
 

4bags

New member
gus horsley said:
I don't know about temperature differences but I believe most helictites grow from either variations in draught ("bending" a water droplet), water squeezed under hydrostatic pressure through tiny pore or tubular spaces, or a mineral such as aragonite interfering with the formation of micro calcite crystals.  Or of course a combination of all these.

Aragonite crystals and helictites - Napps Cave, North Devon:

6097416872_4be4087022%2520%25282%2529.jpg
 

alastairgott

Well-known member
Could magnetism be another possible explanation? 4bags' your picture looks amazing but i can't help but think it looks a little like this
Fphoto-55040208B-2PS.jpg
 

manrabbit

Member
Has anyone considered negative ions caused by falling water, could negative ions cause aerosolised minerals to be attracted to something on the cave wall such as quarts? I never read anything about negative ions and cave formations, just throwing a theory out there..
 

graham

New member
alastairgott

I suspect that's more a case of convergent evolution, so to speak.

Sorry cannot pull that journal off for you. I cannot affords to get behind that sort of paywall. (Note that all the papers that I've linked to in this thread are open access.)

manrabbit

Not so much a theory, more a wild speculation.
 

Brains

Well-known member
Haha, I would say its a hypothesis that could be investigated, a wild speculation would the gods got bored and started doodling  ;)
 

Fulk

Well-known member
I don't know how this delicate little thing formed, but I don't suppose a draught had much to do with it:
5600833665_7255471189.jpg
 

TheBitterEnd

Well-known member
Very small water droplets, as in an aerosol, could respond to forces other than gravity, such as Brownian motion, convection, etc.  Crystal growing at school seems to indicate that there will be preferential deposition on existing seed crystals. So I wonder if an aerosol (or vapor) of water saturated with CaCO3 could contribute to Helictitites such as the one in Fulk's picture?
 

graham

New member
TheBitterEnd said:
Very small water droplets, as in an aerosol, could respond to forces other than gravity, such as Brownian motion, convection, etc.  Crystal growing at school seems to indicate that there will be preferential deposition on existing seed crystals. So I wonder if an aerosol (or vapor) of water saturated with CaCO3 could contribute to Helictitites such as the one in Fulk's picture?

I would doubt it. Given that calcite growth depends on degassing of CO2 from water when it hits the cave atmosphere, it is difficult to see how saturated water droplets would be moving about in that same atmosphere, without having already reached equilibrium with the cave atmosphere.
 
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