Drill Review

maxf

New member
So a few weeks ago I decided to buy myself a drill, I decided to take a risk on one that doesn't appear to have been tested in caves before as its relatively cheap (compared with Makitas), small/ light and takes SDS plus bits.

Bolting is what I had it in mind for, and it is likely that it would get wet/ written off at some point being transported through sumps so this is what set my drill choice decisions upon.

After doing some research on here it appears peoples favourites (with similar scope to mine) were either the Makitas or the Bosch Uneo.

The Makita is obviously good but pricey and quite large, though if it gets flooded/ ruined that's a lot to replace.

The Bosch Uneo looks nice and light but doesn't take SDS+ bits and doesn't have a large range of battery options but is a fair bit cheaper than the Makita.


So I took the plunge on one of these hoping for some Makita/ Uneo middle ground:

http://products.einhell.com/com_en/power-x-change/te-hd-18-li-kit.html
(?95 from Machine Mart)

Cheapish: Yes
Light/ compact: Yes
Similar Spec on paper to previously mentioned drills: Yes


On taking it underground it seemed to take forever to drill holes (6mm x 60mm) and required a lot of pressure to make any head way (the drill was going round the right way and the hammer was on), so I became a bit disconcerted that had bought a bad drill. I tried some different drill bits in a different cave to rule those two points out but without any change in result, cue further disconcertion.

Duncan Price has previously lent me his ?50 Parkside 20v SDS drill he bought from Lidl and that had seemed to work well so we arranged a side by side comparison between his and mine so I could be sure mine was not doing what it should be doing.

The Parkside drill flew through the same rock in comparison to mine using the same drill bits, so now i'm fairly certain the Einhell drill is no good for caving despite on paper having similar impact rates/powers advertised.

(Einhell make Parkside tools it seems and drills do look similar)

The hammer action does work on the Einhell and when testing it on the garage floor it makes rapid progress, just seems to really struggle in caves so my prognosis is the hammer action isn't as strong as advertised which is a shame as it seemed well suited to my needs otherwise.

Makita DHR 165 (18v): BPM:0-5300 @ 1.3j
Bosch Uneo (12v) : BPM 0 -4600 @ 0.5j
Einhell: BPM: 0-5700 @ 1.2j

So guess I will be resigning it to DIY and having rethink on the drill choice front, decisions decisions !










 

alastairgott

Well-known member
I'd give the Hilti X shaped drill bits a go. You probably wont win a battle vs the other drill. (if using the same drill bit).
But it will improve your efficiency, and may make your drill a little faster. if speed is the name of the game.

https://www.hilti.co.uk/drilling-and-demolition/hammer-drill-bits-%28sds%29/r4429
 

Mattrees

Member
I have one of these, I've not used any of the others so can't make a comparison, suffice to say it has performed adequately for bolting climbs.

I've tried drilling longer 12mm holes for plug/feathers and find it gets very hot.
 

maxf

New member
Thanks Alistair, I did try a different brand star drill bit the second time around but no improvement.

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Power+Tool+Accessories/d80/SDS+Drill+Bits/sd1310/Milwaukee+SDS+Plus+MX4+Masonry+Drill+Bit/p52507

In reference to drilling speed: hand bolting would have been faster ! It doesn't seem to make much headway into limestone !
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Before you (re)invest Max just do a little searching on this forum. I remember SamT posting a photograph of a nice looking small drill which looked very packable. Can't remember what make / model that was - or what he said about its performance. But if you're going through sumps then an easily packable drill is likely to be preferable because it avoids having to use really big, numb containers, with all their attendant buoyancy issues. Then again, if you're not going deep, there's a lot to be said for the wagon inner tube waterproofing ploy.

I was really grateful to Badlad on here a while ago; he took the trouble to give me a lot of useful info and persuaded me to move up to Makitas. They weren't the cheapest option but I'm so glad I went down that route. (Thanks Badlad!)

Two other things to bear in mind (for caving) - firstly, the overall length of a drill body. A stubby drill can be used perpendicularly across a narrow rift in situations where a drill with a long body can't. Also, there's a great deal to be said for having the same make & voltage of caving drill and DIY drill, because of battery compatibility, number of chargers purchased, etc. If you invest in a complete system serving all your needs, you might actually save money and / or be able to afford better quality equipment within your budget. It'll involve a bigger initial outlay but should pay for itself several times over in the long run.
 

maxf

New member
Mattrees said:
I have one of these, I've not used any of the others so can't make a comparison, suffice to say it has performed adequately for bolting climbs.

I've tried drilling longer 12mm holes for plug/feathers and find it gets very hot.

How many holes do you get per battery ?
 

SamT

Moderator
Mines a Makita Pitlamp, albeit a slightly smaller one to the one you went for so it fits in a slighly smaller Pelicase.

Thread here - https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=19468.msg257584#msg257584

Not cheap but I think when it comes to drills - you could easily go through 5 80quid drills whilst your 250 quid drill is still going strong.  Buy cheap buy twice etc etc.
 

maxf

New member
Pitlamp said:
Before you (re)invest Max just do a little searching on this forum. I remember SamT posting a photograph of a nice looking small drill which looked very packable. Can't remember what make / model that was - or what he said about its performance. But if you're going through sumps then an easily packable drill is likely to be preferable because it avoids having to use really big, numb containers, with all their attendant buoyancy issues. Then again, if you're not going deep, there's a lot to be said for the wagon inner tube waterproofing ploy.

I was really grateful to Badlad on here a while ago; he took the trouble to give me a lot of useful info and persuaded me to move up to Makitas. They weren't the cheapest option but I'm so glad I went down that route. (Thanks Badlad!)

Two other things to bear in mind (for caving) - firstly, the overall length of a drill body. A stubby drill can be used perpendicularly across a narrow rift in situations where a drill with a long body can't. Also, there's a great deal to be said for having the same make & voltage of caving drill and DIY drill, because of battery compatibility, number of chargers purchased, etc. If you invest in a complete system serving all your needs, you might actually save money and / or be able to afford better quality equipment within your budget. It'll involve a bigger initial outlay but should pay for itself several times over in the long run.

Thanks John, a few questions for you...

How deep would you take an inner tube bag ?

&

From previous forum searching on here I believe you have the Makita DHR 165 ? Could you tell me its length, width and height without a battery ? It does look like quite a long drill in comparison.


My long term plan for a reliable, hassle free, dry, through-sump transport solution is to get two large blocks of plastic and mill out the insides to fit a drill then cut a sheet of rubber to fit in between them creating a seal. Latches to close the two shells together. This should make a drybox that is easy to use, small, light, negatively bouyant and reliably dry to reasonable depth. Obviously drill size has a big bearing on the cost of the plastic which why i'm keen to have a small drill, the Einhell would fit in a 50mm x 500mm x 250mm block cut diagonally to make the two halfs of the shell with room to spare.
 

Duncan Price

Active member
Here is link to the Lidl drill.  I wish I'd bought two for spares - they are no longer available.  It ate through rock compared to Max's drill and I was particularly impressed by the star shaped drill bit which was a noticeable improvement over conventional masonry bits.  I also have a recently re-celled Hilti TE-6A for longer and wider hole drilling though the Lidl drill is perfectly capable of doing one of the latter type of holes if needed.

We used a B&Q branded hammer drill in Wigmore that was transported through the sumps in a rocket tube.  The handle had been sawn off so that it would fit and the battery pack was on a flying lead.  Chris Jewell may remember the details.
 

alastairgott

Well-known member
maxf said:
get two large blocks of plastic and mill out the insides... cut a sheet of rubber to fit in between them creating a seal.

I've had drybags not seal correctly (even with a few folds over) due to Grit getting in-between the folds, luckily only a small amount of water for short periods. but I guess this would be a reasonable problem/snag if you got grit on the rubber.

I'd be keen to know if it works.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
To try and answer those questions Max:

Inner tube bag safe working depth: dunno - I guess it depends on how well you make said bag and how well you ensure the seal is squeaky clean when sealing it up. I took one through, for example, Far Sump several times (max depth there 8 m). I'm sure I've used them deeper - downstream Notts maybe (around -10 m from memory). Maybe make one up and test it at gradually increasing depths?

Dimensions of Makita DHR 165: Try this link (& scroll down):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Makita-DHR165ZJ-Li-ion-Batteries-Included/dp/B00SB71F4E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1513778210&sr=8-1&keywords=makita+dhr165zj

(That's to save me digging mine out and the tape measure - lazy or what?  :-[  )

From memory the bare drill body I bought cost a lot less than that in the link - it came from Axminster Tools, which I found very good to deal with.

Interesting idea with your blocks of plastic approach. I don't have the technical skills to try that but I can't see why it wouldn't work. Maybe add one or two ratchet straps, as double security as well as your over-centre clips? Ratchet straps may also give greater compression (i.e. waterproof to greater depths).

Duncan did well with his Lidl drill. There's some very good items obtainable from Lidl, if you pick & choose carefully.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
SamT said:
Mines a Makita Pitlamp, albeit a slightly smaller one to the one you went for so it fits in a slighly smaller Pelicase.

Thread here - https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=19468.msg257584#msg257584

Not cheap but I think when it comes to drills - you could easily go through 5 80quid drills whilst your 250 quid drill is still going strong.  Buy cheap buy twice etc etc.

That's the one Sam - thanks. Nice neat little unit that.
Just looked at it in more detail in this link:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Makita-DHR242Z-Cordless-Li-ion-Rotary/dp/B00GIIBAE8/ref=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1513779406&sr=1-1&keywords=makita+dhr242z

It gives dimensions of "20 x 20 x 20 cm", which surely can't be right? If you get a moment please could you measure the three dimensions on your drill body?

Also, please can you tell us which is the smallest model of Peli Case it fits into?

I just noticed that this model also does chiselling, which is potentially useful.
Hm, I might have to start saving up - and / or look in the sales after Christmas!
 

SamT

Moderator
Pitlamp said:
It gives dimensions of "20 x 20 x 20 cm", which surely can't be right? If you get a moment please could you measure the three dimensions on your drill body?

Also, please can you tell us which is the smallest model of Peli Case it fits into?

I just noticed that this model also does chiselling, which is potentially useful.
Hm, I might have to start saving up - and / or look in the sales after Christmas!

Pitlamp
https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=19468.msg250417#msg250417

Peli 1400 - internal dimensions - W306 L234 D130

(as opposed to the 1450 that the DHR202 fits in in - W380 L266 D153)

[/drill geekery]
 

maxf

New member
Pitlamp said:
SamT said:
Mines a Makita Pitlamp, albeit a slightly smaller one to the one you went for so it fits in a slighly smaller Pelicase.

Thread here - https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=19468.msg257584#msg257584

Not cheap but I think when it comes to drills - you could easily go through 5 80quid drills whilst your 250 quid drill is still going strong.  Buy cheap buy twice etc etc.

That's the one Sam - thanks. Nice neat little unit that.
Just looked at it in more detail in this link:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Makita-DHR242Z-Cordless-Li-ion-Rotary/dp/B00GIIBAE8/ref=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1513779406&sr=1-1&keywords=makita+dhr242z

It gives dimensions of "20 x 20 x 20 cm", which surely can't be right? If you get a moment please could you measure the three dimensions on your drill body?

Also, please can you tell us which is the smallest model of Peli Case it fits into?

I just noticed that this model also does chiselling, which is potentially useful.
Hm, I might have to start saving up - and / or look in the sales after Christmas!

According to Screwfix its 213 x 328 x 85mm

https://www.screwfix.com/p/makita-dhr242z-3-3kg-18v-li-ion-cordless-brushless-sds-plus-drill-bare/7144j
 

Mattrees

Member
maxf said:
How many holes do you get per battery ?

I have a few different size batteries, (as Pitlamp suggested, I bought a set as my DIY drill had died), drilling 6 x 60mm I get about 5 per Ah. It does vary with the rock.
 

2xw

Active member
They don't often get a look in but Hitachi (soon to be HiKoki) gave SUSS 4x Hitachi DH18DSL/L4 for exped.

I didn't think they'd be much because they're light buttheyre fairly resilient to being thrown around, light overhead and get 20+ 8mm holes per battery. In P8 the other day we were drilling 14mm holes for plug and feathers and got 9x holes in calcite followed by 6x holes in limestone on one battery.

We just carry them in a dry bag as they are okay left in puddles and stuff - never totally submerged one tho.
 

Chocolate fireguard

Active member
Going back to the original question, the impact energy of the Einhell (they wrongly call it impact power) is very low at 1.2J with a random sample of other 18V SDS drills quoted as delivering between 1.5 and 2J.

I didn't manage to find the figure for the Parkside.

Without ever having given it much thought I have always assumed that this impact energy is the kinetic energy of whatever it is that hits the back end if the chuck each time (if indeed that is what happens) and therefore strongly influences how much rock is broken off at the bottom of the hole with each impact.
A bit like how hard you hit a star drill.
So I would expect it significantly to affect the time taken to drill the hole.
But maybe I'm wrong.
 

Hammy

Member
I've had two Bosch Uneos which were great and lightweight (the first one fitted in a small Pelicase) but neither were up to the job. The first one internal battery died and it would have cost a fortune to replace. The second one had a removable battery, didn't fit the Pelicase and went up in smoke one day. The 10mm bit restriction wasn't great.

I used a friends 18v Makita a couple of times but it would only do four holes on one battery and was a bit slow.

I've now gone to the other end of the scale with a 36v Bosch which is very heavy indeed. However it was only ?150 from EBay including three Lithium Ion batteries and charger. It eats through rock like a hot knife through butter and drills many holes off one battery.

Having both a lightweight and a heavyweight drill might be the way to go!
 

maxf

New member
Chocolate fireguard said:
Going back to the original question, the impact energy of the Einhell (they wrongly call it impact power) is very low at 1.2J with a random sample of other 18V SDS drills quoted as delivering between 1.5 and 2J.

I didn't manage to find the figure for the Parkside.

Without ever having given it much thought I have always assumed that this impact energy is the kinetic energy of whatever it is that hits the back end if the chuck each time (if indeed that is what happens) and therefore strongly influences how much rock is broken off at the bottom of the hole with each impact.
A bit like how hard you hit a star drill.
So I would expect it significantly to affect the time taken to drill the hole.
But maybe I'm wrong.

I agree about the hammer theory (with my limited knowledge) but its similar to the other small SDS drills (the drill shaped ones not the small square powerful ones that look like 36v drills) in the 18v range

Makita DHR 165 1.3j
Bosch Uneo 0.5j (seems to have a big following on here despite this 0.5j)
Parkside says 1.0j
WORX WX390  1.2j (Have heard from others that this drill is OK, Spanish expedition this summer past)
Ryobi R18SDS 1.3j
Hitachi DH18DSL 1.4j

Einhell 1.2j

With Matress's report of his working OK i'm beginning to think that mine might be faulty despite it being new and not having suffered any hardship yet. It appears to make all the right noises and to drill ok in concrete. I took it apart earlier to see if i could see the pneumatic parts which make it hammer but the gear box and this bit are in the front end which comes off as one piece so I'm none the wiser as it wasn't obvious how to dissemble this bit.


Uneo sounds ok from this thread:

https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=12185.0

Though it quotes a higher joule rating than the Bosch website
 
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