Rope for Long Ascent
- Thread starter zaphod79
- Start date
Brains
Well-known member
Any of the isual suspects will do the job, but wash well before use, including a good soaking as a loose mass to allow shrinkage. For the first uses over estimate on length to allow for extra shrinkage (10% over). With good carefull rigging your rope will only touch air, rigging points and your gear.
A rack may be preferable to a stop, or perhaps a simple
For American style big pits ask Amy abourt the cables they use...
A rack may be preferable to a stop, or perhaps a simple
For American style big pits ask Amy abourt the cables they use...
cap n chris
Well-known member
I think the reference is to the type of rope recommended for long pitches and the answer is most probably Beal Spelenium Gold as its "bounce" is minimal and is specifically designed for use on big(ger) pitches in caves, hence the name. Potential drawbacks are weight and cost.
cavermark
New member
Most rope manufactuers will supply a datasheet with the % percentage elongation from 50kg-150kg load. e.g.
http://www.edelweiss-ropes.com/en/ropes/26-speleo-11-mm.html
It's generally 3-5% anyway (has to under 5% to be classed as low-stretch rope).
Other factors such as abrasion resistance, diameter, handling and cost may be more important unless you specifically plan to use it just for big pitches (over 50m?).
http://www.edelweiss-ropes.com/en/ropes/26-speleo-11-mm.html
It's generally 3-5% anyway (has to under 5% to be classed as low-stretch rope).
Other factors such as abrasion resistance, diameter, handling and cost may be more important unless you specifically plan to use it just for big pitches (over 50m?).
cavermark
New member
cap 'n chris said:
Beal claim 2% elongation on this and recommend it for long pitches as Cap'n Chris rightly says:
http://www.lyon.co.uk/outdoor/images/brochures/brochure_pdfs/beal.pdf
Page 31
Speleokitty
New member
I've generally used Edelrid Superstatic 11mm for single drops up to 100m. It has relatively low bounce and good abrasion resistance but is both heavy and expensive. In the dim and distant past I used Bluewater but I don't think you can get this in the UK anymore.
If I was buying at the moment I might well go for Spelenium Gold.
If I was buying at the moment I might well go for Spelenium Gold.
What kind of long rope? Like...what are we talking about distance wise? Long rope here the standard is PMI EZ Bend Pit Rope, or the basically same thing but cheaper, Highline Flex. Highline used to be PMI Canada and when things changed "Danger" kept the PMI equipment and started Highline. Highline rope is prettymuch made for caves (cheap but great!) as manufacture rules are different up there, a tracer is not required, which allows it to be produced quite cheeply. It's something in the range of $0.40 a foot. Same high abrassion resistance, I prefer the flex version which is as it sounds, fast flexible rope, but they have become famous here for their stiff rope, which is stiffer than PMI MaxWear, it's a friggin' cable. Anyway, all of it is very low stretch! Elongation: 1.6% at 300 lbf | 3.1% at 600 lbf | 5.3% at 1000 lbf makes a huge difference in how much "climbing" you have to do just to get off the ground!
Mike Hopley
New member
Thin rope is generally more bouncy -- this is necessary to satisfy the standards for impact force during a fall (a thick rope, having more material, absorbs more force by stretching, and therefore need not stretch as far).
Spel. Gold is unusual, because it's relatively thin and low-stretch. I believe this is achieved by including low-stretch fibres that break during a heavy fall, absorbing energy as they break, and also allowing the rope to stretch more once they have broken.
Spel. Gold is unusual, because it's relatively thin and low-stretch. I believe this is achieved by including low-stretch fibres that break during a heavy fall, absorbing energy as they break, and also allowing the rope to stretch more once they have broken.
Dynamic and static rope both come in a wide range of diameters. And yes for the same construction, stretch does increase as the size decreases.
For example, I can get our PMI Rope the standard in caving here in 11mm (typical), 10mm, or 9mm.
Stretch comparison:
11mm: 1.6% at 300 lbf | 3.1% at 600 lbf | 5.3% at 1000 lbf
10mm: 2.1% at 300 lbf | 3.7% at 600 lbf | 6.3% at 1000 lbf
9mm: 2.5% at 300 lbf | 4.9% at 600 lbf | 7.3% at 1000 lbf
In caving (SRT) we climb rope, not rock. We are never "ahead" of our gear like in rock climbing. Our equipment is typically not meant to take falls on rope, and in fact, cams such as on a croll or basic, etc, if taken a fall on will at best desheeth and at worst cut the rope. You shouldn't ever be in a position on rope to fall on an ascender.
For example, I can get our PMI Rope the standard in caving here in 11mm (typical), 10mm, or 9mm.
Stretch comparison:
11mm: 1.6% at 300 lbf | 3.1% at 600 lbf | 5.3% at 1000 lbf
10mm: 2.1% at 300 lbf | 3.7% at 600 lbf | 6.3% at 1000 lbf
9mm: 2.5% at 300 lbf | 4.9% at 600 lbf | 7.3% at 1000 lbf
In caving (SRT) we climb rope, not rock. We are never "ahead" of our gear like in rock climbing. Our equipment is typically not meant to take falls on rope, and in fact, cams such as on a croll or basic, etc, if taken a fall on will at best desheeth and at worst cut the rope. You shouldn't ever be in a position on rope to fall on an ascender.
Well hopefully your anchor system doesn't fail, that's not a normal thing (I'd hope!). I don't know how you do them there now, but when I was there and how we do traverses here, a cowstail, which is tied with dynamic rope, takes the fall and so I'd be on carabiners/dynamic rope not a tooth cammed ascender. Ascenders are for vertical movement not horizontal they aren't meant to take such a perpendicular load anyway. yeah there is some give in static, but it's not meant to take falls like dynamic rope used in rock climbing is meant for. I realize your stuff is typically more stretchy side of static though whereas we like as low stretch as possible here.
Blakethwaite
New member
Well hopefully your anchors won't fail but that's not to say they won't. English/European rigging methods are quite rightly based upon the presumption something somewhere will.
Furthermore, 'ropework' isn't just about abseiling, its as much about lateral movement,sometimes without protection, which is one of the instances where the dynamic properties of a rope becomes of importance.
Furthermore, 'ropework' isn't just about abseiling, its as much about lateral movement,sometimes without protection, which is one of the instances where the dynamic properties of a rope becomes of importance.
Mike Hopley
New member
Out of interest:
Does anyone know if Type L (lightweight) rope standards have any max. impact force requirement?
Does anyone know if Type L (lightweight) rope standards have any max. impact force requirement?
cavermark
New member
Impact force of under 6KN seems to be what fall arrest systems etc. aim to achieve (more than 6KN being considered likely to destroy your pelvis) This is all I could find for lightweight ropes (also sold as "accessory cord)
http://www.hamradio.si/~s51kq/photo_album/Climbing_and_Mountaineering/pdf_climbing/UIAA/PictUIAA102-EN564AccessoryCord.pdf
Anyone got access to the full EN 564 ?
Normal low stretch rope EN1891 type A gives 6KN impact force from FF3 100kg load (plus 5FF1's)
EN 1891 Type B is the same but for an 80kg load.
So Lightweight rope will no doubt be less than this (ie. will generate a pelvis shattering impact force from FF3 80kg).
Don't fall onto it in other words!
http://www.hamradio.si/~s51kq/photo_album/Climbing_and_Mountaineering/pdf_climbing/UIAA/PictUIAA102-EN564AccessoryCord.pdf
Anyone got access to the full EN 564 ?
Normal low stretch rope EN1891 type A gives 6KN impact force from FF3 100kg load (plus 5FF1's)
EN 1891 Type B is the same but for an 80kg load.
So Lightweight rope will no doubt be less than this (ie. will generate a pelvis shattering impact force from FF3 80kg).
Don't fall onto it in other words!
cavermark said:
Are these Fall Factor 3 impact forces? How do you get a FF3 in caving?
I know it is possible in industry and on via ferrata. It is difficult to envisage in SRT.
Actual maximum forces possible would be much lower.
fwiw In US maximum permissible industrial force is 8kN. This may account for the stiffer ropes for sale over there.