Occams releasable anchor

glyders

glyders

Member
It halves the amount of rope you have to carry for a given length pitch. On the other hand I don't like that it is a one-time deal - ie. if someone pulls the cord (even a few inches) too early it can't be re-attached (unlike a traditional doubled rope method).
 
Ship-badger

Ship-badger

Member
It's a good parlour trick, but not much use in most of the canyons I've been in where the hangers are against the rock. No use to me because I don't have any wire gate krabs. I'd like to meet the clever bugger who thought of it.
 
glyders

glyders

Member
I do wonder if there is a tongue in cheek reference to Occams' Razor in the naming - the simplest solution is usually the best  :-\
 
I

IanWalker

Active member
clever, but there is no 'positive' pull on the karabiner body to unhook it from the anchor so it seems to rely on luck and self-weight. i would want to know how it works in real world situations.

assumes everyone is happy abeiling from a single wiregate that is remote, possibly out of sight and certainly with bits of string attached to the gate that dangle down the pitch. additionally only one anchor point can be used.

and anyway we can all half our rope weight with the conventional pull-through set-up by tieing cord to the knotted side of the line.

ian.
 
F

Fulk

Well-known member
Since most pull-throughs in Britain tend to have relatively short pitches, and you only need one rope + a spare, it doesn't strike me as too onerous to carry all the rope you need.
 
ah147

ah147

New member
Theres another much more complicated, but requiring much less cord system that climbers, VERY OCCASIONALLY, if you're a nutjob, use.

It involves a fifi hook and some bungee cord...I could describe it if you'd like?
 
B

blackholesun

New member
Enjoyed this video. Not convinced that it would be sensible underground. However, I think that it could be useful on sports climbs when you're not able to get to the top where you can thread your rope, but don't want to abandon a carabiner. Will certainly give this a go.

Would the system you describe look something like this, ah147?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=b8Ute5c2BVk#!
Skip to 2:00. System features the insanity of likely death if you unload the rope before you reach the ground.

 
exsumper

exsumper

New member
I'd suggest that (as I suspect Andy is alluding to) that all of these methods, also have a close relationship to Darwinism! The most rigorous of Occam's razors.

For simple, safe, proven methods of esoteric pitch rigging,  I can only recommend Al Warilds "vertical" But I suspect that it is sadly out of print!  I presume that barring progress in recent years, Andy would also recommend it; just  for its educational and thought provoking contents.

I have a personal copy, but does anyone know if it is still in print?

 
Les W

Les W

Active member
exsumper said:
For simple, safe, proven methods of esoteric pitch rigging,  I can only recommend Al Warilds "vertical" But I suspect that it is sadly out of print!  I presume that barring progress in recent years, Andy would also recommend it; just  for its educational and thought provoking contents.

I have a personal copy, but does anyone know if it is still in print?
Click to expand...

http://www.lulu.com/shop/alan-warild/vertical/paperback/product-1749578.html  (y)
 
exsumper

exsumper

New member
Les W said:
exsumper said:
For simple, safe, proven methods of esoteric pitch rigging,  I can only recommend Al Warilds "vertical" But I suspect that it is sadly out of print!  I presume that barring progress in recent years, Andy would also recommend it; just  for its educational and thought provoking contents.

I have a personal copy, but does anyone know if it is still in print?
Click to expand...

http://www.lulu.com/shop/alan-warild/vertical/paperback/product-1749578.html  (y)
Click to expand...


That'll be one of this years birthday presents then!.
 
exsumper

exsumper

New member
BlackholeSun: Or nothing new under the sun? Especially dead climbers. 
The fifi hook may have had its uses for the aid climber, but they're taking the piss.
Most of us may have abbed off jammed rocks and other dubious tat in the past, but only in extremis, to do so when you have options is mere foolishness!

Whatever next a revival of that French spring loaded abseil anchor/death trap, the " Dechrocur or something like that; I can't remember how to spell it. Perhaps the truly old and insane can help me out!  Apparently very popular  with dead climbers in the sixties. I saw a photo of said device in an old climbing manual once and almost shat myself!
 
ah147

ah147

New member
Thats it!

Used it in the alps to make a 120m abseil when a friend came down with HAPE and we needed him down, quickly.
 
F

Fulk

Well-known member
Hmm, I think I?ll ignore the ?T?cnica muy peligrosa? and stick to the standard method (when using a descender designed for use on single ropes only) of tying a butterfly knot in the ?pull-down? side and clipping the ?active? side into a krab in the butterfly.

Though this can, of course, go wrong . . . I know of someone who forgot the maxim ?not the knot? and abseiled (rather rapidly!) on the wrong side. Fortunately it was a short pitch.
 
Burt

Burt

New member
Terrifying. I'd rather leave some gear on the pitch than risk that.

Maybe we should start a thread of "scary rigging - DONT do it like this.."

I'll kick off with the "dog turd belay" - I'll take a picture of it later today. Won't be using it though!
 
ah147

ah147

New member
Leaving gear would of been a better option, if we didn't need the rope for the glacier crossing...
 
paul

paul

Moderator
Fulk said:
Though this can, of course, go wrong . . . I know of someone who forgot the maxim ‘not the knot’ and abseiled (rather rapidly!) on the wrong side. Fortunately it was a short pitch.
Click to expand...

You can lessen the risk of this happening by clipping the karabiner to the anchor for everyone except the last caver.

The last caver clips in a cowstail to the anchor, attaches his descender to hopefully the correct side of the rope and unclips the karabiner from the anchor. After ensuring all is OK, unclip the cowstail and descend.
 
F

Fulk

Well-known member
paul:
You can lessen the risk of this happening by clipping the karabiner to the anchor for everyone except the last caver.
Click to expand...

Would this pose the problem of loading the krab at a peculiar angle?
 
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