Hi,

Me and my mate have just started our open water diving stuff with PADI. All is going well however after our first two open water dives (yesterday) i feel like crap. The world was spinning and i felt disorientated. I spent a bit of time last night sucking the O2 bottle dry which helped me out some. This morning i still feel light headed though. Justin who i dived with has just come into work and says he feels lightheaded and a bit out of it too.

For our two dives yesterday i got a maximum depeth of 16m and both dives were 40min in length. Both times stopping at 5m for 3mins on ascent.

Common issue with new divers or something more?

I have spoken to the guy doing our course and he said he he will run tests on the air left in our bottles when he gets home.

Any ideas from the more experienced out there?

Thanks for any help!

Oh oh oh, also Titanium or SS for me knew knife? Pro/Con to each....

Thanks

Buy a cheap knife. Small one too. This is the best I've owned in 13 years diving.

http://www.aqualung.com/us/gear/accessories/item/226-squeeze-lock-knife

Where were you diving? Why can't you see the air test?

My main guess would be contaminated air with oil or CO.


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Hi ah147,

Were diving in the Oman, cylinders came from Oman Dive Center.

We will be able to see the results when he has taken the tests.

Thanks for the reply.

My thoughts (in order of likelihood)

- Contaminated air
- DCS - The chances of both of you getting this based on your profiles are VERY slim
- Perforated eardrum (I have done this and it made me a bit unbalanced and light headed at first, BUT the chances of both of you doing that are very slim)

My vote is on contaminated air..... CO or hydrocarbon.

Hope you feel better soon.

Can't advise on the air quality im afraid..

Id buy a couple of cheap knifes, remember they don't really need a point that you could fight off a great white with, (I file the points off mine), and consider also carrying a pair of shears. Easier to use one handed, and better for cutting other potential nasties like wire, phone cable etc, depending on where you're diving. A ?10 pair of anvil secateurs from a garden centre or screwfix would do the job.

JA

Always suspect the air quality first. As new a new diver you will be over breathing which will accentuate any problems with air quality or narcosis. The latter should not be relevant in this case as narcotic effects subside with decrease in depth. Long term concentrate on your breathing and look at yoga exercises to improve your diaphragmatic respiration. Deep inhales and exhales but few per minute. That will aid your concentration and improve your air consumption. It will also reduce any state of anxiety you might be in. Diving is essentially not a physical thing but more about a start of mind. Arrive early for departures and give yourself time to kit up. Visualise the dive beforehand and get your breathing under control before you enter the water

Carry two small knives with one attached to your wrist ( not leg ). Make sure the knife is on a lanyard so you cannot lose it. Keep the other small knife in a pocket. Dont buy anything from anywhere other than a dive shop as it might rust up or jam. In my day I carried a wrist console with most things on it. I only had to slip it over my drysuit and not waste time fastening buckles. Its all about reducing possible stress. Your kit up should be fluid and automatic so you enter the water calmly. Boat diving in the UK can be arduous and kitting up stress should be contained. If you have a set procedure you are unlikely to forget something. ( On yes I have seen em jump in with no fins on ).

The oft seen photo of me in my prime. You might think the dive shop came along with me. You can see the simple wrist console with attached knife , compass and timer. Essentially I was a deep solo diver so I had to have two of everything. That mess had total redundancy including twin jackets with separate inflation. Back gas was one air and one heliair. ( My preferred mix but rarely seen. Quite highly narcotic at depth but controllable with diaphragmatic breathing. ) Side mount is %60 02 deco gas. Helmet essential as you cant hold a torch and a knife cutting yourself out of a net.

And dont forget the teddy bear.( Seen here on my right shoulder strap ). 

I'm not quite at that stage yet. Although loving every moment of it.

I'd be extremely wary of any test that's conducted on air that you are not present for.

He may be testing the compressor, but that's some very expensive machinery most top level dive shops do not have. He won't be able to test for hydrocarbons any other way.

My guess is he's either going to bring you the old test cert for the compressor, fake a test cert for the compressor, hold a CO gauge up to the bottle and fake a cert or finally just come in and tell you everything is fine.


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Id be surprised if he were to do that, After all i get to take him caving 

Just told me CO, CO2 and H2O were all high. He will test inside the valves for hydro carbons later today.

I'm not sure what the exact result of this would be, but i guess too much carbon monoxide/dioxide and water in the lungs isn't good for nobody.

As I said, new to this. But not put off yet 

From what I can see, Titanium seems like the way to go. I like the idea of two smaller knives, and can definitely see the advantage to sheers.

One thing to be aware of (as you will know from your course) is that partial pressure of gases comes into play here with contaminents (as it does with O2 and N2).  So if there was CO in there and it made you feel a bit "ooooooohhh" this time, if you go deeper then the effect could be much worse.........

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/instructor-of-calgarian-who-died-while-diving-also-felt-sick-1.1162791

Personally, if I was diving in a country with a less than highly "touristified" diving scene I would have various analysers for my own personal use. Not sure what the set up is in Oman but be careful.

Joe90 said:

Id be surprised if he were to do that, After all i get to take him caving 

Just told me CO, CO2 and H2O were all high. He will test inside the valves for hydro carbons later today.

Click to expand...

Wow. Two points then:
1st: Excuse my earlier cynicism. It comes with years of dealing with rip off dive merchants. They're much more common than good ones and it appears you've found an honest one (even less common than good ones)

2nd: CO causes headaches and lightheadedness and the room spinning. Hypercapnia (too much CO2) can have similar symptoms but is normally accompanied by quite severe shortness of breath as CO2 is what triggers the urge to breath.

Conclusion: I personally would not dive any cylinders filled from this source until the compressor is serviced and I have seen results from CO testing first hand. It's an instant test.

The high CO and CO2 are from the compressor, the high water is from the cylinders, I believe that's quite common with school/hire cylinders but may be wrong.

The water is more an issue for strength of the cylinders, they corrode faster in high pressure environments.

Joe90 said:

From what I can see, Titanium seems like the way to go. I like the idea of two smaller knives, and can definitely see the advantage to sheers.

Click to expand...

Titanium is much more expensive for little benefit. I think there may also actually be strength issues. I know this is discussed at length on thediveforum.




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ah147 said:

Joe90 said:

Id be surprised if he were to do that, After all i get to take him caving 

Just told me CO, CO2 and H2O were all high. He will test inside the valves for hydro carbons later today.

Click to expand...

Wow. Two points then:
1st: Excuse my earlier cynicism. It comes with years of dealing with rip off dive merchants. They're much more common than good ones and it appears you've found an honest one (even less common than good ones)

2nd: CO causes headaches and lightheadedness and the room spinning. Hypercapnia (too much CO2) can have similar symptoms but is normally accompanied by quite severe shortness of breath as CO2 is what triggers the urge to breath.

Conclusion: I personally would not dive any cylinders filled from this source until the compressor is serviced and I have seen results from CO testing first hand. It's an instant test.

The high CO and CO2 are from the compressor, the high water is from the cylinders, I believe that's quite common with school/hire cylinders but may be wrong.

The water is more an issue for strength of the cylinders, they corrode faster in high pressure environments.

Joe90 said:

From what I can see, Titanium seems like the way to go. I like the idea of two smaller knives, and can definitely see the advantage to sheers.

Click to expand...

Titanium is much more expensive for little benefit. I think there may also actually be strength issues. I know this is discussed at length on thediveforum.




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Click to expand...

The urge to breathe is controlled with 2 main mechanisms - the hypoxic (lack of oxygen) drive and the hypercapnic drive.

High CO2 will put you into acidosis. Your body tries to compensate with a respiratory mechanism I.e. 'blowing off the CO2' or with a metabolic mechanism, mopping up the acid with HCO3 etc. If breathing doesn't work then you're going to mess up your electrolytes and compromise your mental function with either mechanism.

In short I agree [emoji6]

Also if you have had CO exposure then best get tested for carboxyhaemoglogin levels - CO binds irreversibly to RBC and has a 3 month shelf life.

That sounds a bit nasty!

I decided the only logical thing I could do to shake the fuzzy head would be to run it off.

So off I went to the full moon hash in Muscat. I ran the whole bastard thing, including every false trail 

After this I decided that it would be a good idea to re hydrate, and as mother hair had announced free beer  I re hydrated rather well.

Well, by the time it was time to leave I felt brilliant. I did the next day too.

All's well that ends well hay 

I believe a ton of beer is the correct treatment for all diving ailments


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Here's a few thoughts, which may be of some use.

Beer will not rehydrate you; the alcohol is a diuretic - so you'll end up worse off.
If you've been feeling ill from an unidentified dive related problem then masking symptoms with alcohol use is probably not too good an idea.

In the absence of any gas analysis, is it worth also considering other possible causes of the problem? (I agree that bad air may well be to blame in the above case but it's not the only reason for feeling "wrong" after diving.)

Some years ago (on a cave dive) I came up from -55 m via a steeply ascending passage to the deco zone in a friendly sunlit pool. As I started my deco I felt really awful; I thought I was going to pass out. I remember clutching my inflator and being prepared to press that button if I felt myself slipping into unconsciousness, to get me to the surface where my mates would have fished me out of the water, even if my deco was incomplete. (DCI is a better option than a fatality.)

I didn't black out and I completed my deco but I felt dreadful for a long time after that dive. The subsequent analysis of what went wrong led me to consider "syncope of ascent" as the likely problem. It's very easy to hyperinflate the lungs when task loaded by complex equipment in the ascent phase of a deep dive. This can cause pressure on major arteries bringing oxygenated blood out of the heart - including to the brain - and of course the brain soon chucks its rattle out of the pram when starved of oxygen.

I'm not necessarily suggesting this was the cause of your problem - but it's an example of why it's worth thinking outside of that proverbial box. Could there be other reasons for your symptoms?

Multiple dives are one item from a very long list of factors which make DCI more likely (although your dive buddy reported similar symptoms which, if he had cylinders filled from the same source, does suggest a breathing gas problem). Your dives that day wouldn't be expected to produce DCI symptoms but DCI is governed by the "chaos" principle and there are never any guarantees from following tables / what the dive computer says. What if (by chance) you both just happen to have a PFO? You sound like you're the sort of person who "likes his ale" - there's nowt wrong with that of course but if you're serious about diving then it's best to leave the ale alone. Did you drink beer the day before the dives which caused your symptoms? If so, you may have been dehydrated before the dives (and dehydration is another contributory factor in DCI). Do your boozing at other times, not when you're in a period of diving.

The absence of the stimulus of gravity whilst diving (especially if the vis is bad - although I suspect that's not a factor in the sort of places PADI use for training people) can cause weird subjective feelings of dizziness after diving, especially in less experienced divers. (I frequently do very long cave dives of many hours duration in poor conditions and I sometimes find it quite strange adapting back to the "real world" after finally surfacing.)

It's important that you do sort out the most likely cause of your problem - and treat it as a valuable learning experience. Your strange feelings after diving can of course be the result of a combination of causes. Just keep an open mind on this one and talk to a number of experts if you have access to them.

If you're training to be a diver, give it 100% and stay off the alcohol before and after. Have your serious session in the bar well after your body has physiologically adapted back to the "normal"  world. (This may be 2 or 3 days later.)

A mate of mine who was (and I use that word deliberately) a very experienced diver surfaced after a routine dive, where the short decompression phase had gone well. He got back on the boat, collapsed - and then stopped breathing. His companions performed CPR, got him helicoptered to a chamber - and he survived. But he'll never dive again. He'd had a few beers (nothing excessive) the day before and it was probably simple dehydration which got him seriously bent.

Diving is a thoroughly absorbing and rewarding activity - but do it right and it's unlikely to bite back. Having said that, the problems you describe above may well be not your fault at all.

I wouldn't bother with two knife's...

An ezi cut or two are my choices

http://www.divelife.co.uk/scuba-manufacturers/Eezycut/4852/Eezycut-Trilobite-Cutter-in-Gun-Metal-Black

One on the wrist will do you fine for open water diving

Goes through line and rope much easier than a knife

If you do go for a knife also a flat tipped one is more useful ththan a pointed one I think, can be used as a screw driver.


Try cutting some rope or line underwater with a knife... Its a two or three handed operation, can be done with one hand with shears or an ezi cutter thing if the other hands tangled

A friend of mine was going diving off the Cornish coast a couple of years ago. He contacted a local club and got invited on a trip. They were training a few beginners for a whole before they set off so he went for a splash about in the surf. He started feeling woozy and had to be helped up the beach. Turned out that the compressor that the club was using was sucking in exhaust fumes from an engine.

Yes - wasn't that featured in the chapter on the Fontaine de Vaucluse in Cousteau's classic book "The Silent World"? I believe it's rather more common a problem than folk often realise.

I always use knives rather than those specialised cutting devices because I've never had a problem cutting anything with my knives and also because a traditional knife is so much more versatile a tool. But each to their own.