Hello all,

My question is rather simple; is there such thing as a comprehensive digging guide for beginners? From basic principles (let's assume I know how to hold a spade and ) to structural and geological principles/considerations? How much of this wisdom is handed down by the elders and where can I find out more?

I've been reading through posts by "The Old Ruminator" (not implying you are an elder on the basis of age.... See! I told you I could ) and it's been very insightful. I'm also in touch with another digger on the site (you know who you are) and I'm learning a lot about finding and rediscovering forgotten mines. I was just curious if there were any written resources I could also use? A "Vertical" but for horizontal (and occasional vertical) purposes... Or do you suggest I just continue to lurk in the dig section?

I understand that permission is always step 1 after finding a site and nobody is going to instruct me on clandestine digs! Thanks in advance

CJ said:

My question is rather simple; is there such thing as a comprehensive digging guide for beginners?

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try reading "Caving Practice & Equipment" by David Judson, 2nd edition.  There's a chapter devoted to it - try your club library or picked up a 2nd hand copy online.

Technically digging is a hobby of innovation.  Developing new techniques and refining current ones is a big part of the game.  Digs are hugely diverse from just removing mud from a tube to scaffolding upwards through a loose choke, but methods constantly evolve.  Techniques described in book may well be out of date.

One of my digging mates is writing a book called 'The Joy of Digging' or so he claims.  I'll let you know if it ever gets published.



Are you anywhere near the dales?

Digging is indeed a joy but I cant really define why. I was digging last night. I find it good for body , mind and soul. As for techniques the old adage applies
?The first casualty of any battle is the plan of attack.?
You evolve as you go along quite often responding to what materials you can get for nothing.
At Vurley we had 60m of scaffolding for nothing so we used it.
At the moment we have had over ?3,000 of twinwall pipe so we are using it.
Stanton had his own techniques. Great at wall building and rarely dug anything as a crawl. For me at age 74 long term techniques are not really the thing. We use capping a lot which I am not allowed to mention. Also HE from licenced practioners. My lock down weight has reduced by a stone as I dig twice a week over seven sites. We have a great team going as well which helps. I am probably the last person to emulate as a digger anyway as I usually get hurt.

Its a good thing to keep a photo record too as you are changing something that has existed for a very long time. These from last night.



Also keep a digging/caving log in case you need to write it all up one day.

I know a Chap who does a good line in digging buckets 

The Old Ruminator said:

Its a good thing to keep a photo record too as you are changing something that has existed for a very long time.

Also keep a digging/caving log in case you need to write it all up one day.

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Good advice on both counts. Today's news becomes tomorrow's history, and it is always good to have a contemporaneous account available. Although a relatively insignificant find, this is the log we kept when digging Stile Pot, Gaping Gill.

https://www.braemoor.co.uk/caving/stile2008.shtml

If nothing else, it reminds me of the 48 days I spent on the project!

Far from an expert here but a few years back several of us with no prior experience of digging started poking around on Portland.  I guess our techniques can't be that bad as we've not killed ourselves (or come close) but have made the caves longer.  Since starting a few hardened diggers have joined us and very little has changed.

I'd recommend a starters tool kit of long crowbar, lump hammer, chisel, SDS drill and 14 mm plug and feathers.  More advanced techniques are available but everything we've done on Portland has only used the above.  Plug and Feathers take a bit of practice but very effective once mastered.

Spoil removal has been our largest hurdle.  Many varying styles of drag trays have been used ranging from a wooden trolley, to the usual 20 L drum with a hole cut in 1 side to something fashioned out of carpet tiles.  For us the carpet tile drag trays have been the most useful and are really robust.

 

And another upvote for record keeping (pictures), things that seem insignificant at the time might become a lot more important later.

Lurking in a dig section is a great way to get some quick experience, as others have said digs are very unique beasts. Improvise, adapt, overcome 

Compared to others with decades of digging under their belt I'm a toddler, but here are a handful of things that could have made things easier had I known sooner:

- A short handled mattock is the best digging tool I've come across
- Crowbar a close 2nd
- The Roughneck micro spade & shovel seem to have been designed for digging in caves: Small, cheap, durable (the micro pick & mattock is a little too small to be useful, get a full size one and cut/ grind it down to demand)
- Drill: Caves kill everything, rather than spend ??? on a nice new one I've bought mine off ebay/ fb marketplace/ whatever. Don't skimp on the drill bits, "X" tipped Hilti or Bosch ones make a significant difference.
(Drills that are optically in good condition but "don't work" frequently have a loose connector inside that's easily fixed. I open mine up, solder an external lead to them and use them with Lidl LiIon batteries, which means any 18V SDS off ebay is usable with cheap and surprisingly reliable batteries. Some require a 10k? NTC.)
- Drag trays: Make the attachment points as low as possible, helps it riding over obstacles (tip from another forum user). If dealing with very sticky spoil, use a liner like damp proof membrane in the drag trays. Avoids the drag trays becoming very heavy and there's less periodic cleaning needed.
- Complexity is the enemy of success
(I'm 100% guilty of over engineered or over-planned approaches in a drive for maximum efficiency - you have a limited number of digging hours, it might take a long time to get to the dig, etc. This all falls apart very quickly underground, and the time invested in setting something up may be better spent just digging.)
- Spoil planning: If you're trying to find the way on in a non-constricted area, be very mindful of where you put spoil. Otherwise you might end up moving it twice, or even three times
(Ah bugger, this is just a wall! Maybe the way on is 2m further left, you know, where we put all the spoil?)

Have fun!

This is quite a large and varied resource, albeit mostly out of date, USA focused and a horrific looking site:
https://www.cavediggers.com/
Whilst it was operational (2008-2011 i think) there was an interesting email group for sharing ideas

I agree though a compiled resource on digging (be it a forum/book/whatever) would be a valuable thing. So many different techniques are used and evolved and, whilst i agree that many are borne from material availability or very specific challenges, there will be large overlap for many. There is a wealth of information available already, both on UKC and in publications, but it's very scattered.

As with most things in life, it is better to learn on the job...put the leg work in and work with as many different digging members/teams as you can.

Everyone has their own way of doing things eventually, certain areas of expertise and it's best to work on figuring out your own.

A book on basic practices would be cool though.

Mike.

Thee best way to learn about digging is to volunteer your help on an active dig.
There are not many digging groups who will turn away additional help.

Aubrey said:

Thee best way to learn about digging is to volunteer your help on an active dig.
There are not many digging groups who will turn away additional help.

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Everyone welcome at our dig. Plenty of mud and buckets to share.   

Thank you for all your responses and wisdom. As I'm new here I'm unable to "like" peoples posts; so you'll have to make do with my appreciation instead. I'm based near the Peak District (S) and would be happy to help anyone out in exchange for the experience. I can certainly see how digging would be quite therapeutic and provide a healthy sense of accomplishment. I will continue to lurk here and will read the resources/books mentioned, whilst slowly accumulating whatever scraps I can find to hold up a ceiling! I wonder if it can be done with the white good appliances and couches left on the side of the road...

Time ! Patience !

Me at the same cave dig 1967 and 2021. 54 years apart and only about 8 metres further on.

Digging tip number 43.

Get somebody else to do the hard work while you take it easy.

Somehow as you get older fixed aids seem to increase.

Always have a little surface site shelter no matter how primitive.



Keep digs tidy.

Vurley spoil tip in La La Land.



Avoid horrible slimy digs. They are vexatious to the spirit.



Use loads of scaffolding .



Watch out for falling rocks.



Cheap drill bits are worse than cheap drills.



Digging can be painful.

CJ said:

Hello all,

My question is rather simple; is there such thing as a comprehensive digging guide for beginners? From basic principles (let's assume I know how to hold a spade and ) to structural and geological principles/considerations? How much of this wisdom is handed down by the elders and where can I find out more?

Click to expand...

Why don't you say where you are based and ask if anyone needs an extra pair of hands on their dig.

If you're in Peaks you're welcome in P8