Peak Expedition 2012 (credit crunch expedition)
- Thread starter Mark
- Start date
nickwilliams
Well-known member
Happy to host it again if people want, and I'll make sure I don't book myself a trip to NZ for the second week this year.
I don't think the bog trailer's going to make it as far as June though!
Nick.
I don't think the bog trailer's going to make it as far as June though!
Nick.
DAN
New member
Well how about doing it at the TSG chapel there are toilets a kitchen, bunks and a pub across the road? That way there is no tent to put up and take down (a mess to clean up) and a lot of the caving got done in Peak it would be much more practical, that is if the TSG agree and I do not think they will mind.
Dan
Dan
Mark
Well-known member
It looks like the TSG hut in Castleton is a viable option, possibly at members rates (?3.00 per night). It would save a considerable amount of hassle setting up and clearing up the site at Hucklow (which we are very grateful for Nick)
The Chapel was ideal for the successful Lumbago walk project last year and there are plans to do some further projects in Peak.
The hut is available at the moment anytime in June/July, it would be good not to clash dates with uni expeditions this year.
I suggest last week in June 1st week in July, (23/06 - 08/07), but would be open to other suggestions.
The Chapel was ideal for the successful Lumbago walk project last year and there are plans to do some further projects in Peak.
The hut is available at the moment anytime in June/July, it would be good not to clash dates with uni expeditions this year.
I suggest last week in June 1st week in July, (23/06 - 08/07), but would be open to other suggestions.
Cave_Troll
Active member
at some point yes. need to wait for a settled period of dry ish weather and sometime to organise the pumpers.
Sausagebun
New member
will there be evening digging trips, and dates please.
Ta
Ta
Cave_Troll
Active member
well if still have to be convinced that its worth pumping it again :tease:
Rob
Well-known member
If i remember correctly in anything but very dry weather (like what we had last year) it fills up again pretty fast, certainly the first section anyways. When we went back again a few weeks later after some rain the first section had completely filled again.Dan said:
Once we pumped it dry a visible inlet could be seen flowing from the left hand side (West). The lower section of the crawl was unaffected though, so i guess that only fills up when the lower sumps back up.
Mark
Well-known member
Mark said:
I would like to try and confirm the above dates,
Met with some members of the TSG last week and the general feeling is that it would be a good venue.
Various key players from the last two years are keen to use the Chapel as a base so unless there are any other suggestions I would like to book the Chapel fairly soon
Pitlamp
Well-known member
Please can I make a suggestion for a possible project for this years CCE if it's a dry summer?
Last year Mark asked me about the possibility of pumping out Styx Inlet Sump. I explained that this would require a complex multi-pumping approach which would need more time to organise than was available. Instead I suggested that the Lumbago Walk Sump A would be a better bet. The rest, as they say, is history.
I still don't think Styx Inlet Sump is a good idea for this year (for a number of reasons) but can I suggest something else which, in a way, is related to the idea of pumping Styx Inlet at some future stage - and might produce some new cave anyway?
Donkeys years ago I remember Mark attempting to pass the downstream Halfway House Sump by ducking through from airbell to airbell. (As it later turned out he actually got pretty close to the end - a fine effort!) At the time it'd only been dived once or twice, by the post war oxygen rebreather "frogmen" divers and there was no survey. Mark was defeated by lack of the next airbell within safe free diving distance. Some time after this I made a careful underwater survey of Halfway House Sump. This revealed that the roomy tube which is obvious when you follow the stream from 5 Arches down to the sump is abandoned by the main Peak Cavern stream in the underwater section. In fact the main Peak stream slides off under the right wall into a ridiculously immature bedding. This water re-emerges some distance away from a similarly immature intet in the Swine Hole to Resurgence sump. The main Halfway House tube continues beyond this small outlet to where it is suddenly choked with silt. The destination of this tube is completely unknown.
Time rolled on and more recently I plucked up courage to try and explore the small outlet, hoping it might regain this much bigger tube. I managed to pass a 7 metre low section to emerge in a larger rift, occupied by all sorts of debris from the show cave including a long fence rail with many protruding nails (which I managed to get back out through the low section). The way on from here was smaller again, with further debris in evidence. Bearing in mind that this was all being done in zero visibility, that was the point where I threw in the towel. ALL of this area is extremely shallow - there's actually an airbell immediately above the choked end of the roomy main tube in Halfway House Sump. The low 7 metre long bedding is probably at only about 1 metre depth.
All surveys show that the Halfway House Sump is at the same level as the Peak Cavern Resurgence Sump - so if the Peak Resurgence were lowered by a metre or so, the whole of Halfway House Sump would be bone dry. This would allow the choked main tube in Halfway House to be inspected for digging or draughts. It would also allow the tight outlet to be explored without diving, which may regain the larger main tube somewhere ahead. It would be an important step in gaining knowledge which would be vital if ever Styx Inlet Sump itself were to be pumped in future - specifically whether Styx Inlet can be isolated from the Halfway House canal. Finally, it would give an opportunity to remove any other debris causing a restriction in the low passage - which might help reduce flooding of the main part of Peak in extreme conditions - which would probably be of interest to the management of Peak.
The point I'm trying to make is that 90% of the development which goes into Halfway House Sump is lost before the water re-emerges in Peak Resurgence. The nearby Styx Inlet Sump (which is part of this story) presently ends beyond Cavedale and it may well be that the Halfway House Sump main tube has an ultimate destination a long way away (e.g. Pindale?).
Pumping out the resurgence would need some effort but there's several months before the CCE 2012 which gives a bit of time to try and source the necessary equipment. Some of the vital metre could be gained by channelling the floor in the gorge, although a big effort would be needed to make more than about 30 cm impact. But it could certainly be done and would reduce the amount of water needing to be pumped.
Halfway House Sump is another example where divers, despite their best efforts, have met an impossible impasse which would be considerably easier for dry cavers to pursue. It's also an ideal project for the sort of sustained team effort which is possible with a CCE.
If anyone thinks it's worth having a go at pumping Peak Resurgence, there's an article in the most recent TSG Journal which gives more detail of the Halfway House area (and a survey). If you've any questions I'd be pleased to try and answer but can we do it here (rather than on Facebook - which I don't use). If this was going to be attempted I'd do my best to lend a hand at the time as well.
Interested?
Last year Mark asked me about the possibility of pumping out Styx Inlet Sump. I explained that this would require a complex multi-pumping approach which would need more time to organise than was available. Instead I suggested that the Lumbago Walk Sump A would be a better bet. The rest, as they say, is history.
I still don't think Styx Inlet Sump is a good idea for this year (for a number of reasons) but can I suggest something else which, in a way, is related to the idea of pumping Styx Inlet at some future stage - and might produce some new cave anyway?
Donkeys years ago I remember Mark attempting to pass the downstream Halfway House Sump by ducking through from airbell to airbell. (As it later turned out he actually got pretty close to the end - a fine effort!) At the time it'd only been dived once or twice, by the post war oxygen rebreather "frogmen" divers and there was no survey. Mark was defeated by lack of the next airbell within safe free diving distance. Some time after this I made a careful underwater survey of Halfway House Sump. This revealed that the roomy tube which is obvious when you follow the stream from 5 Arches down to the sump is abandoned by the main Peak Cavern stream in the underwater section. In fact the main Peak stream slides off under the right wall into a ridiculously immature bedding. This water re-emerges some distance away from a similarly immature intet in the Swine Hole to Resurgence sump. The main Halfway House tube continues beyond this small outlet to where it is suddenly choked with silt. The destination of this tube is completely unknown.
Time rolled on and more recently I plucked up courage to try and explore the small outlet, hoping it might regain this much bigger tube. I managed to pass a 7 metre low section to emerge in a larger rift, occupied by all sorts of debris from the show cave including a long fence rail with many protruding nails (which I managed to get back out through the low section). The way on from here was smaller again, with further debris in evidence. Bearing in mind that this was all being done in zero visibility, that was the point where I threw in the towel. ALL of this area is extremely shallow - there's actually an airbell immediately above the choked end of the roomy main tube in Halfway House Sump. The low 7 metre long bedding is probably at only about 1 metre depth.
All surveys show that the Halfway House Sump is at the same level as the Peak Cavern Resurgence Sump - so if the Peak Resurgence were lowered by a metre or so, the whole of Halfway House Sump would be bone dry. This would allow the choked main tube in Halfway House to be inspected for digging or draughts. It would also allow the tight outlet to be explored without diving, which may regain the larger main tube somewhere ahead. It would be an important step in gaining knowledge which would be vital if ever Styx Inlet Sump itself were to be pumped in future - specifically whether Styx Inlet can be isolated from the Halfway House canal. Finally, it would give an opportunity to remove any other debris causing a restriction in the low passage - which might help reduce flooding of the main part of Peak in extreme conditions - which would probably be of interest to the management of Peak.
The point I'm trying to make is that 90% of the development which goes into Halfway House Sump is lost before the water re-emerges in Peak Resurgence. The nearby Styx Inlet Sump (which is part of this story) presently ends beyond Cavedale and it may well be that the Halfway House Sump main tube has an ultimate destination a long way away (e.g. Pindale?).
Pumping out the resurgence would need some effort but there's several months before the CCE 2012 which gives a bit of time to try and source the necessary equipment. Some of the vital metre could be gained by channelling the floor in the gorge, although a big effort would be needed to make more than about 30 cm impact. But it could certainly be done and would reduce the amount of water needing to be pumped.
Halfway House Sump is another example where divers, despite their best efforts, have met an impossible impasse which would be considerably easier for dry cavers to pursue. It's also an ideal project for the sort of sustained team effort which is possible with a CCE.
If anyone thinks it's worth having a go at pumping Peak Resurgence, there's an article in the most recent TSG Journal which gives more detail of the Halfway House area (and a survey). If you've any questions I'd be pleased to try and answer but can we do it here (rather than on Facebook - which I don't use). If this was going to be attempted I'd do my best to lend a hand at the time as well.
Interested?
Rob
Well-known member
Pitlamp, sounds like a very suitable project for the CCE. 
Interesting that it's the right. The Swine would be to the left. This suggests that either the bedding does indeed rejoin and then cross the main tube, or that the tube raises away from the sump before the bedding passes underneath. Both are good results...Pitlamp said:
