I'm off out tonight to go and restart an old dig that I was involved with 10 years ago. The site is well publicised, there aren't any known access restrictions. The problem I have is that it is open to surface and accessible to any cavers. It's in an area that has suddenly become interesting to me and I don't want it poaching so do I come clean, announce my intentions and say where it is or keep quiet? I don't want to go down the lines of posting a notice at the end saying "Dan's Dig Bugger Off!"

Thoughts?

Dan.

Ey up Dan. It's Jules here from the Eldon. I reckon you're best letting people know what you're up to. I did try skulking around and being evasive about a dig recently but it did my head in. In my (limited) experience the gentlemen's agreement works quite well in Derbyshire these days.

Good luck with it eh!

Yeah - I have to agree with Jules. Im pretty open and honest about where Im digging and what Im up to, as are most people in Derbyshire at the moment. For a long time, many of the main players kept their cards exceeding close to their chests - but Im not so sure its particulary 'good for the sport' ( ).

You'll probably get more offers of help with it if you 'go public'.

Of course you dont *have* to tell anyone. but word usually gets around. especially with this t'interweb malarky.

As jules mentioned - there is of course a Gentlemans agreement, that anyone I know would adhere to.

In the olden days - many of the digs where not that 'involved' and people did keep schtum as they could easily overcome in one session whereas most digs these days require lots of effort/digging.

Mind you - if I had a little dig that was very close to going - just a couple of rocks to shift - I dont think I'd tell all and sundry till I'd been there myself and done it.

Up to you really.

I'm with Jules and Sam - there's plenty for everybody and folks don't really go poaching any more.

The other thing is that if ever you have an accident - or even just overdue, it's probably best if folks who are active in the area know about the dig so they can nip over and make sure you're all right.

Keep us informed Dan at least it gives us a bit of inspiration knowing whats going on, good luck

Pitlamp said:

I'm with Jules and Sam - there's plenty for everybody and folks don't really go poaching any more.

Click to expand...

Yep  I agree, no need for secrecy these days....

Cheers guys,

That's pretty much what I thought people would say, I guess the post was more about stating my intentions than anything else. The only thing about coming clean is I'm not sure exactly how straightforward access is. Pitlamp knows where I'm digging, it's in an old disused quarry immediately south of Dirtlow Rake at the bottom of a dale.
I can't believe we left this one be. After ten years it looks as good as I remember it - straighforward digging in what appears to be the roof of a big (Peak Style) passage. Digging involves removal of mud and breakdown boulders and is basically easy. The conveyer belting we put in previously is still fully functional and makes dragging buckets out very easy. The passage is heading north west towards Dirtlow Rake and Peak, my interest was rekindled by the fact that JNC is pushing an active inlet to Peak that seems to be coming from the Dirtlow Rake area, not a million miles from where we were last night. At the depth we are currently I don't think the far end of Dirtlow Rake will have been worked so we might not hit mine workings when we get there but hopefully big natural stuff.....

I had this message from JNC a little while back:

Dan - your message the other day prompted me to have a little delve into the literature.  If you look at "Limestones And Caves Of The Peak District" (1977, Ed. T.D.Ford) page 305, it says (of the main streamway in Peak Cavern):

"Further up the Main Passage a major inlet enters from the south, from the Ink and Lake Sump passage.  The trend of the passage is back down dip, almost in alignment with the upper end of Main Passage, and it is tempting to deduce that the fore-runner of the present main stream once went this way.  If so, it might have resurged somewhere near the foot of Pindale."

Makes you think, don't it?!

Have a good Christmas.

John C


Dan.

Crack on Dan. I always understood that originally Peak drained the Dirtlow Rake area and that sounds the right place to dig on the surface.

Amazing the amount of big fossil phreatic stuff uncovered by quarrying operations in this area, whereas the mining seems to have entered younger vadose passage.

Good luck hope it goes big.

Another way into Peak would be nice!

If its the one I think it is we had a look there 30 years ago but dug at the other side of the quarry (downstream continuation) always thought it looked good.

I think I know the location you are on about - it does look good. Go for it!

I would reiterate Pilamp's point generally to diggers who do try and keep their current dig's location quiet (not to you Dan): always ensure somebody knows the location of your dig so that the local CRO can find it should it become necessary. You never know...

Hi Mark,

Yep you did go downstream in Black Rabbit Cave. Not sure I'd get through the squeezes these days but 12 years ago it was an interesting trip. Got through the dodgy lower chokes to a very loose chamber with the way on looking suicidal but draughting. I'm sure though that the draught was coming from Earles Quarry which is literally a whisker away from the end of Black Rabbit.
Pindale cave is looking much better as it is proper passage heading back under the dale in solid limestone. It's on a vein (Calcite) which was steadily dripping water into all parts of the cave last night. Unsure of the draught but no fog was building up down there and the Hilti fumes came out of the entrance after a bit. Anyway it's going to be a regular dig from now on, probably Wednesday nights if anyone is interested. Don't come if you don't like spiders!

So any guesses or info as to what access is like to caves in disused quarries? Is the land / rights owned by Blue Circle or not?

Dan.

Sounds interesting Dan count me in. I'll help out but it will have to be after mulu.

I wouln't mind having a look, could do with a mid-week dig.  Could maybe bring something more potent than Hilti caps....  mwahahahaha

well personally i could do with a project less squalid that Robins and Toadstool.
have you introduced your young lady friend to it yet?

This is what we want, every bugger interested, I woudnt mind giving you a chuck when Im free

Mark said:

This is what we want, every bugger interested, I woudnt mind giving you a chuck when Im free

Click to expand...

Exactly the reason I quoted for going public on a dig.

If Im thinking of the same place - the down stream end of the cave would be at the base of the quarry wall on the left of the quarry when you walk up and into it i.e. on the Earles quarry side.

If so - that was my first ever caving trip - way back in the late 70's or early 80's. My dad took me and my sister in there armed with hand held torches - I seem to remember sliding through a tightish slot and into a wide low bedding - which we were lay flat out in at which point we turned round - my dad struggled with the squeeze on the way out - much to me and my sisters angst (we were trapped behind him) and our little christmas cracker torches started to go dim.

Seemed to recall that some years later, dad admitted to thinking the place was bloody loose. (not surpising being in a quarried face that backs onto another quarried face about 100 meters away).

Not the ideal novice trip. what was he thinking  .

Lol! I'm assuming the comment about another way into Peak being nice was TIC Andy! That would be a disaster! What would be good would be to find a parallel system with some fossil stuff heading out towards Bradda Moor....

Currently I'm planning for a trip either this Sunday or next Tuesday or Wednesday - four people would suffice. I have a broken rib at the minute which is rather limiting my abilities but I can haul buckets no problem. The immediate issue is to rid the two boulders at the dig face - I reckon about an hours work. Haul the bits out and then keep moving forward. There is a tantalising 4" gap over the fill and you can see for several metres - definite encouragement.

A draught test would be interesting as well but probably won't prove much.

I should state btw that I am completely reliant on others for drills etc, I have a crowbar and that's it! So if you have kit and want to come you move up the list........

Dan.

Sounds very interesting, and yes I agree a route under brada would be better than a new route into Peak 

I'm not familiar with the site, but it sounds good from what people have written. I have a generator but our drill is down Waterways having being abandoned by the recent flooded-in party. I have to go and fetch it  first

How close could you get a generator on a trolley, and how far from that point to the dig face? 110 drills do a damn fine job on nuisacnce boulders, with a few bits thrown in.....

Eyup Dan,

RE: Pindale Access.... could be worth being as discreet as possible.  In 2005 the flippin' Peak National Park Authority along with some other self appointed bodies designated Pindale Quarry as a.... "National Monument"... Don't laugh... they really did.  Basically it was all a plot to ban local kids (some of which were in their 40's) playing around up there on trials and motocross bikes.  Apparently there's some really important plant grows in the quarry, some thingy bog wurt weed thing, that had to be saved at the cost of humans having fun.  I've not got the details to hand but I can root them out for you.  There was a load of argument between the PDNPA and objecting locals.  The daft thing is this flippin' plant is only there because of surface erosion (quarrying, mining, surface water run-off channels and motorbikes).  If the indigenous fauna gets a chance to recover the ground completely it won't survive, this plant needs a regularly disrupted surface to exist.  The Peak Park used "the preservation of old mining features" as part of their argument and then...... filled a load of the old shafts in with concrete! Top preservation if you ask me.... Then there was all the rubbish about erosion... they seemed to forget it was a quarry that unnaturally eroded several million tons of limestone out of the dale.

Anyway.... keep digging!  At worst you've only got about 750m to go which should keep you busy for a while, or you just might get lucky!

TTFN - Z-Victor-4 out.