I've recently started back at work in the Peak after a long Christmas of unemployment. I'm down Carlswark a couple of times a week for the Yha. My colleagues and I have been noticing a large number of yellow arrows and other painted waymarkers along the Eyam Passage. I don't know if there have been more added recently or if it is just because of my few weeks away from the cave that I'm noticing them more and more. We are guessing that someone has been dropping groups down the Eyam Dale Shaft and telling them to "follow the arrows" to the Gin Entrance. I imagine this has been known about for a while now. If anyone knows who this is then give them a slap.
:spank:
Anyway, a number of us are starting to carry small pieces of green scouring pad in our suits to give these arrows and other bits a quick scrub as we pass through with our groups or are waiting for them to go through a squeeze etc...
It takes a few trips to get a marker off and a nearby puddle helps a lot. Nice for groups to see a bit of active conservation as well.

Another problem has been an increase in the number of initials carved into the rock or flowstone on the walls. I find that a good dollop of mud helps to cover and darken down the freshly exposed areas.

This is no doubt a problem not exclusive to Carlswark. If a few more of us stick a bit of scourer in our pockets and spend a few seconds on a bit of paint now and then I'm sure we can make a drastic improvement and also set a good example to our groups and others.  :halo:

If anyone knows of any better ways to dispatch paint marks feel free to chip in! Perhaps we could organise a graffiti hit list.

Hi Pete, Its been a couple of months since I was last down there - although I was Stoney on 17th Feb but didn't drop down the Gin entrance, I met a DCC group walking back to their van at the substation, having done Eyam to Gin.

I'm at an Outdoor centre later this month - probably taking kids down Carlswark as well, so I'll brief the guys who work there about the problem.

Chesterfield Caving Club have Stoney M on 'watch' so I'll forward your message and a bunch of us will pop down one evening fully armed with scourers and wire brushes.

There's a local shop that sells a pack of 3 different brushes wire, nylon and another one for a quid.

Ta

Martin

martinb said:

Chesterfield Caving Club have Stoney M on 'watch' so I'll forward your message and a bunch of us will pop down one evening fully armed with scourers and wire brushes.

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Thanks Martin, you'll have to let me know when you're heading down and I'll try and rustle up a few more bodies from our club/centre. Are Chesterfield CC down on the Adopt a Cave scheme? Caving.UK didn't list a club looking after Carlswark, I was trying to see who to approach but in the end decided to try and round up some people from my own club and adopt it ourselves.
I think it was you who mentioned a bit of a surface clear-up around the Gin/Resurgance area a (long) while back. We would be happy to get involved with that if it happens. In the meantime I'll approach the staff at Edale and the rest of the club and see if I can get a few bodies on board for a bit conservation work.

Pete K said:

martinb said:

Chesterfield Caving Club have Stoney M on 'watch' so I'll forward your message and a bunch of us will pop down one evening fully armed with scourers and wire brushes.

Click to expand...

Thanks Martin, you'll have to let me know when you're heading down and I'll try and rustle up a few more bodies from our club/centre. Are Chesterfield CC down on the Adopt a Cave scheme? Caving.UK didn't list a club looking after Carlswark, I was trying to see who to approach but in the end decided to try and round up some people from my own club and adopt it ourselves.
I think it was you who mentioned a bit of a surface clear-up around the Gin/Resurgance area a (long) while back. We would be happy to get involved with that if it happens. In the meantime I'll approach the staff at Edale and the rest of the club and see if I can get a few bodies on board for a bit conservation work.

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Not sure about the 'adopt a cave' thingy. I'll check. MarkC from CCC has done a full environmental/SSSI type survey of Stoney M and made a list of stuff that needs sorting - which didn't/doesn't include the graffiti.

Yup, twas me that mentioned Resurgence area. Still an amount of grot around the entrance - saw that on 17th Feb whilst looking for Bamforth Hole just above and left of Resurgence.

I've emailed MarkC and the rest of CCC mob, we're also Peak Cavern and beyond on Sunday, so I'll mention it again and get some people on board.

Martin

Paint is a bastard, but I believe there's some published stuff in the NSS News about how to shift it.

Don't have teh references to hand, I'm afraid.

After a false start - my fault!  :-[ - The evening of 19th March for an Eyam Passage Paint clean up has been arranged.

There should be at least 3 from Chesterfield CC, anyone else is welcome.

Normal layby at Stoney M by 6pm, kit up and hike up to Gin Entrance. I'll sort out a bundle of wire brushes/scourers this weekend.

If anyone else is interested, please pm me.

If we get enough bodies, a second team down Eyam Dale Shaft might be an idea. 

Martin

martinb said:

Not sure about the 'adopt a cave' thingy. I'll check.

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Yep thats us. 

I surveyed Carlswark in detail for the audit before Christmas, but did not notice any arrows then.  There were however arrows in Ivy Green that have been on the 'to do' list for a while.  Glow sticks have also been appearing all over the place, but they are obviously a lot easier to take care of. 

Pete/Martin: How many arrows do you estimate there to be?  Is an an evening enough or is a day/weekend needed to get it sorted?

I'm also hoping to organise a big clear out of the Dale caves soon, whereby we'll get a skip to fill up with all the crap that I've made a note of underground and in entrances.  We'll have a blitz of the worst bits, then the skip will be there for for about week or so after, so hopefully it can be topped-up as people do trips to different caves (if the fly-tippers don't get there first!).  Any rubbish that cavers can bring out would be much appreciated.  I'm putting together the proposals for the DCA now...

Mark C

MarkC said:

Pete/Martin: How many arrows do you estimate there to be?  Is an an evening enough or is a day/weekend needed to get it sorted?

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I honestly could not say how many arrows are down there. I seem to notice some on each trip and then generally forget where I saw them. Too much going on in my brain! I guess that an evening could do some serious impact to the graffiti and the rest could be picked off as and when people are passing.

martinb said:

The evening of 19th March for an Eyam Passage Paint clean up has been arranged.

Click to expand...

It's a working day for us on the 19th but I should be able to get over, I'll try to bring some other bodies along.

Pete

It's a working day for us on the 19th but I should be able to get over, I'll try to bring some other bodies along.

Pete

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Same here, but I work a little closer to the area  :ang: I'll try to arrange some noshable goodies!


Martin

I hope to have a better idea of who is coming in the next few days. You can certainly count me and my other half in.

For reference, we (Darkside Caving & Mining Club) have just taken on Carlswark under the Descent 'Adopt-A-Cave' Scheme. Most of us are cave leaders for local centres and we are happy to put a bit of time in to conserve the caves we use.

i'll keep look out int dynamite series.

Pete K said:

Anyway, a number of us are starting to carry small pieces of green scouring pad in our suits to give these arrows and other bits a quick scrub as we pass through with our groups or are waiting for them to go through a squeeze etc...
It takes a few trips to get a marker off and a nearby puddle helps a lot. Nice for groups to see a bit of active conservation as well.

Another problem has been an increase in the number of initials carved into the rock or flowstone on the walls. I find that a good dollop of mud helps to cover and darken down the freshly exposed areas.

This is no doubt a problem not exclusive to Carlswark. If a few more of us stick a bit of scourer in our pockets and spend a few seconds on a bit of paint now and then I'm sure we can make a drastic improvement and also set a good example to our groups and others.  :halo:

If anyone knows of any better ways to dispatch paint marks feel free to chip in! Perhaps we could organise a graffiti hit list.

Click to expand...

Paid a visit to purchase scourers and wire brushes. However, they were sold out of wire brushes, so I have got 2 packs of scourers and 2 heavy duty wooden bristle brushes.

See you on the 19th.

Martin

Just a word on wire brushes - make sure your not actually doing more damage to the rock that wont really heal - i.e. leaving big cleaned scars.

Otherwise, top stuff 

SamT said:

Just a word on wire brushes - make sure your not actually doing more damage to the rock that wont really heal - i.e. leaving big cleaned scars.

Otherwise, top stuff 

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Yup, MarkC said to be wary of them.

Those wire bits are sharp!

Martin

SamT said:

Just a word on wire brushes - make sure your not actually doing more damage to the rock that wont really heal - i.e. leaving big cleaned scars.

Otherwise, top stuff 

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An important point. Observation of dated graffiti shows us that freshly exposed rock surfaces can take centuries, if not thousands of years to weather back to give the same appearance as the surrounding rock.

The scouring pad and puddle technique is working well and a large dent in the number of arrows has been made already. Not many left. Done 2 through trips today and although not looking around much I've not noticed a great deal more. Try to pay more attention tomorrow coz I'm down there again! Yay.
Also, as a side point, this afternoon the cave stank of fags from the Shaft to around Naughts and Crosses.  :spank:

Have you tried paint stripper to loosen it first...?

Good job guys

AndyF said:

Have you tried paint stripper to loosen it first...?

Good job guys

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I wasn't sure about thinners or anything like that. Thought it might not be too good for the cave environment. I bet it stinks too.

Paint stripper (nitromorse etc) although not pleasant stuff, is a bit different to thinners or turps (which are oil based and would hang around after use), paintstripper is water soluable and breaks down after use..

Matt

matthewjc said:

Paint stripper (nitromorse etc) although not pleasant stuff, is a bit different to thinners or turps (which are oil based and would hang around after use), paintstripper is water soluable and breaks down after use..

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Ahh, I didn't realise there was any difference.